Why does anyone buy a PC anymore?

[Dani]

With the very high end Mac Pros comparable in price to PCs with the same specs, why does anyone (and by anyone I mean people in the market for a new, high end machine) bother buying a new PC anymore? Similar price, same exact specs, and you could either get the ability to run Windows or you could get the ability to run both Windows and OS X, which each have their advantages.

This past summer, I purchased a Dell Precision Workstation 690 just weeks before the Mac Pro was announced (I received it only days before). When the mac was finally out, it very coincidentally had the exact same specs as my new Dell down to the processor, the ram, even the video card. While I did get some extra perks such as 15K SAS hdds with a PERC raid card in RAID 10 as opposed to 7200 RPM 3 mbps/sec SATA that Apple offers (unless you want to get an Xserve), I keep wondering whether I would have been happier if I held out for the same machine with the ability to run OS X too.

Aren't pc's easier to upgrade, customise (hardware) and replace parts cheaply if they go wrong, compared to macs?

[DemonicGoldfish]

Well, for one thing, macs tend to cost more (correct me if I'm wrong).

For another, I may be wrong here, but I thought that PC components don't work on a mac, and many monitors and mice don't work with macs also.

Compatibility is another thing: many gamers like myself basically only use the computer for gaming and things such as MS office and internet browsing: it just doesn't seem worth the hassle to partition your drive, etc.

[Dani]

It's true you can't get a cheap mac. But if you're in the market to buy a high-end workstation (such as the Dell I purchased a couple of months ago), the price for the same system was very comparable through Apple.

Macs work fine with all keyboards and mice. For a monitor you're going to need to go with DVI as opposed to VGA, which is the de facto standard for a couple of years already.

Microsoft has MS Office:Mac which is actually more fully functional than their Windows counterpart. And if you don't want to partition your drive (which is about 10 minutes of time anyways) then there's always Parallels which lets you run Windows from within OS X.

[Dani]

> It's true you can't get a cheap mac.
On second thought, I take that back. You can get an Intel-based mac mini for less than $600, and dual boot it with OS X and Windows.

[John A]

There are definitely disadvantages to Macs.

Customizability is quite an issue for expert PC users. You certainly can't build a custom Mac, and for many buyers the products Apple offers don't suit their needs/budget. Perhaps they don't want to spend more than $1000 on a laptop.

Secondly, you have to remember that the price of your dual-booting Mac goes up, because Windows XP isn't thrown in with the deal like if you buy a modern PC these days. Although XP isn't terribly expensive, it still costs money, and that's probably the biggest reason why I don't install XP on my MacBook (I'd love to try out Visual Studio 2005 which I recieved free in the mail, but that's another story).

But yes I agree with you, there's getting to be less and less of a need to avoid Macs these days. :)

[DimaYasny]

If I wanted a mac, I'd buy a cheap generic PC and install a MACOS there. Not hard to do these days.
On the other hand, Macs aren't easier to use than Windows PC's, we're not in the 1980-90s anymore

PS I personally use Debian :)

[DemonicGoldfish]

I don't much like Apple as a company, but that's not why I don't bother with their OS's: I already have an iPod and I MUST have an iPhone, but it just annoys me that they make you use only what they want you to use: it's illegal to put OS X on PC components. You can't use iTunes with other MP3 players. That sort of thing.

[jbennet]

yeah if ms did that ppl would have a fit

how about if ms made thier own pc that only windows could run on and it would run on nothing else? - people would cry Antitrust but somehow apple get away with it

Macs are also hard to upgrade i believe and are expenisve

my pc has a good gfx card, core 2 duo, 250gb HDD, 19" TFT and 1gb RAM with XP Pro and vista upgrade cose me £499 whereas a similar mac would be ££££

[John A]

If I wanted a mac, I'd buy a cheap generic PC and install a MACOS there. Not hard to do these days.

Actually it is. Not only is that illegal, but it's also very difficult. The only way you can get Mac OS X running natively on a PC is if you build a special custom PC that's very similar to the original Apple Developer Machines that they rented out before the Intel Macs were released.

Then, you can't even run the latest version of OS X on it because Apple has fixed those security holes. You would have to download a pre-release version of the Intel-based OS 10.4. So it's actually not that easy.

yeah if ms did that ppl would have a fit

Really? Are you forgetting about the Zune, which has a DRM scheme very similar to the iPod's? Since people have pretty much gotten use to the iPod's scheme, it's actually not caused a huge uproar.

how about if ms made thier own pc that only windows could run on and it would run on nothing else?

Actually that is partially true. Don't know if you've read this, but in some cases this is true:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/04/30/preinstalled_windows_aargh_i_cant/

Macs are also hard to upgrade

Depends which models you're talking about. About the only thing that cannot be replaced in a Mac Pro is the motherboard. Mac Minis are hard to upgrade, true, but so are a lot of PC laptops.

i believe and are expenisve

A more correct term would be "high-end". Apple laptops can be compared to similarly-priced Sony laptops. Apple MacBooks and Sony Vaios, in case you didn't read it, were the highest-selling laptops on Amazon.com.

my pc has a good gfx card, core 2 duo, 250gb HDD, 19" TFT and 1gb RAM with XP Pro and vista upgrade cose me £499 whereas a similar mac would be ££££

As mentioned in a previous thread, it's likely that the Apple computers are quite higher priced in the UK than here in US and Canada. Which is unfortunate, as it would be ideal if tech toys were similarly priced throughout all reigons, but that can't be the case always.

[DimaYasny]

Actually it is. Not only is that illegal, but it's also very difficult. The only way you can get Mac OS X running natively on a PC is if you build a special custom PC that's very similar to the original Apple Developer Machines that they rented out before the Intel Macs were released.

Then, you can't even run the latest version of OS X on it because Apple has fixed those security holes. You would have to download a pre-release version of the Intel-based OS 10.4. So it's actually not that easy.

Well, I didn't know about the illegal part actually - every day I learn something new :) When the whole MAC-x86 OS came out I decided to have a look at it, so I just downloaded the boot images from emule and installed it quite easily. For testing purposes only - I really don't like the MACOS desktop and wouldn't use it.
The PC I used was a 2.8 Celeron, with a cheap GigaByte MB and 1Gb of RAM.

[happygeek]

Reason I use a PC rather than a Mac? You can't build your own Mac from off the shelf parts, you can't upgrade your Mac as easily (for pretty much the same reasons as you can build one from off the shelf parts) and PCs are what I know, so why change to something I don't?

Actually, I do have a Mac, one of the 17" lampshade iMacs in fact, which I bought because I'm a sucker for design and that has to be one of the most iconic computers ever. :)

[DaveB]

XP is better than OS X, so why pay more to put XP on a Mac. Most software doesn't really need the performance of a high-end PC anyway. Most likely the software that does, isn't available for Mac.

What I find suprising, is that most off-the-shelf PCs are still pretty ugly, kinda the only thing Macs have going for them imo.

[DimaYasny]

why is design so important? maybe I'm a true sysadmin and not a user, but what I like to see is a good solid case with good airflow and lots of space for extra devices, and not slick pretty looking cases with colorful lamps and other kinds of modding. I actually prefer to waste PSU power on extra hard drives instead of useless internal illumination. But again, maybe it's just me...

[happygeek]

Not just you. My main workhorse PCs are as ugly as sin but as functional as your deepest tech fantasy could wish for.

However, the computer in my lounge has to look good, sound quiet, and be functional. Which is where good design comes into play.

[jbennet]

i know. i love my proliant - quad xenons and 2gb ram and its circa 2000 - but its boxy as hell and beige

design isnt everything - i like easy upgradiblity and reliability

[DimaYasny]

weeell, the computer is under the desk, nobody sees it. A good Zalman cooling system can render any computer almost silent, and you can always put a fancy screen on the desk, to impress visitors :)

[jbennet]

not my pc lol (and yes, i AM using the proliant as a games machine:) )
3x 750w PSU's oh-yeah....
and the biggest coling system i have ever seen

[happygeek]

weeell, the computer is under the desk, nobody sees it. A good Zalman cooling system can render any computer almost silent, and you can always put a fancy screen on the desk, to impress visitors :)

Not when there is no desk to put it under. Many lounge resident media centre PCs live on display in the room, rather than hidden away, so need to be part of the furniture rather than stuffed underneath it :)

[DimaYasny]

Not when there is no desk to put it under. Many lounge resident media centre PCs live on display in the room, rather than hidden away, so need to be part of the furniture rather than stuffed underneath it :)

Well, that's showcase stuuf, not the actual machine you work on, right?

[happygeek]

Yes indeed, which is kind of what I was saying before.

My main work machine is all about power and to heck with the aesthetic, but a living room media center machine needs to look good and perform well.

[DimaYasny]

...a fact which makes me happy not to have ever worked in a non-production environment, where showcasing has any meaning :)

[DaveB]

I'm sure you geeks just love the retro chic. Personally, as long as it doesn't come at the expense of function, I'd want something that looks nice.

[jbennet]

im the oppsoite/ i like pcs that can take a beating and run solid for years - my proliant has been running since 1997 apart from about 12 hours - even if they do look like crap

http://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/83/4b/b6_1.JPG
http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/13850382.jpg

looks like this - most reliable box i ever owned

[John A]

This is my Mac IIvi - which still works perfectly (it's what, 11 years old?):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/magnolias/113533624/

On a side note, the more a computer looks in style when it's new, the more outdated it looks when you see it years later. :) This is evident in my old Mac.

[jbennet]

same. i still got a whole load of NT4/Win 3.11/NT 3.51 boxes

[DaveB]

But I would still think that most home use Apple PCs are bought because of their design, rather than function, look at Alienware, totally overpriced, but they sell well. I'm just suprised you don't see more stylish PCs available on the high street, although admittedly things are changing with a lot more Small Form Factor systems available.

I have an Antec P180 to house my beauty, sadly they didn't sell it in beige :)

[Mix]

Actually I was thinking about getting a mac but my main factor against it is the upgradability. I want a laptop, and generally its known that lappies are hard to upgrade. Its not too many people who service macs in my area. No one sells Macs here. I want a Mac / Linux dual boot, both better than XP. The only reason why Im sticking with XP now is MS visual studio and the games.

[jbennet]

why not tripel boot a macbook with XP, linux and OSX?

[John A]

why not tripel boot a macbook with XP, linux and OSX?

If you're going to use all OSes more-or-less equal, you'll definitely want to consider an upgrade from the MacBook's puny 60 GB hard drive.

OS X takes up at least 15 GB, and if you decide to install Vista, well... let's just say there won't be a lot of room left over for your files. ;)