ATI Radeon x series question?

[SeroVectra]

I am considering purchasing an ATI Radeon x800 type card.

Is there any significant difference in the Radeon x800, Radeon x800 pro, Radeon x800 xt.
Other than the clocked speed for each.

How would I know if my comp. supports PCI express or not, (is it true that pci type cards clocked at a faster speed than agp?).

Also does any one think its really necessary to buy a top of the line card whil still possesing a:

Intel pentium 4 2.0ghz
256 mb ram
Nvidia Geforce 4 ti 4200 128mb
bios RG8105A agp 4x
HD: 80gb hittachi

[Coconut Monkey]

Your computer does not have PCI-E slots.

The x800 Pro would be the better buy (considering the price premium on the XT), but I would recommend waiting for the X800XL or trying Nvidia's 6800GT.

The X800Pro has 12 pixel pipelines and the XT has 16 (the XL will have 16). I'm not sure what the non-pro has.

Performance will be significantly boosted, and you can carry the card across to a new, non-PCI Express system in the future (there are no boards that support both AGP and PCI-E, and PCI-E will eventually replace AGP).

[oenone]

I would either get a 6800GT or a 6600GT. Make sure you find the AGP model! 6600GT is an excellent deal. 200 for a 16 pipeline card with an excellent clock speed. It beats the pants off of a X800 pro. 6800GT is competing with the X800XT, the 6800GT costs about 50-100 dollars less, and performance is virtually identical. Some really hot deals, however, are coming out for PCI express. The X850 LE will compete with the 6800GT and costs 100 dollars less. Obviously, if you want to grab a PCI express card you will need a new, and fairly expensive motherboard. I would recommend either going for a 6600GT (very high quality budget) or a 6800GT(X800XT equivilent for 50-100less) or just fully upgrading your system. You could grab a new PCI-E motherboard, a fancy AMD 64, and a X800LE and a gig of ram for 500-600 bucks. While PCI-E isn't any faster than AGP currently, there are a few good reasons for getting it. First of all, graphics cards manufacturers are phasing out of AGP, and into PCI-E. Also, PCI-E has 4 times as much bandwidth as AGP8X. While this isn't an issue today, as applications don't even use all of the bandwidth provided by AGP8X, it will be in coming years.
What I am going to do, though, is get AGP and upgrade to PCI-E in about a year or 2 when it is fully mainstream, and a better deal. It's really up to you in the end though, hope I helped.

Sorry if that was a bit confusing! If you have a question just ask ;)

[Coconut Monkey]

The 6600GT does not have 16 pipelines - only 8.

The 6600GT does not beat the pants off an X800 Pro - considering that the X800 has a 256-bit memory interface and 12 pipelines.

The 6800GT is designed to compete with the X800 Pro in terms of price, and soundly beats it with superior performance (but it does not beat a X800XT across all games).

The 6800 Ultra is designed to compete with the X800XT in terms of price.

[oenone]

Erk, sorry about saying the 6600GT had 16 pipelines, my mistake there.

I suppose I wasn't very clear when I said that the 6600GT "beats of the pants off of an X800pro" Performance wise, the 6600GT generally outperforms the X800pro until resolutions are turned up to 1600X1200 and AA/AF are turned up. The fact that a $200 card is even COMPETING says it all. The 6600GT is faster at lower resolutions (for the most part) and still manages to mostly keep up at higher ones. The 6800GT is certainly competing with the X800XT, and all the benchmarks show that it really depends on the application. While the price is similar to that of a X800pro, the 6800GT is competing with an X800XT. I also think that nvidia intended for the 6800 ultra to compete with an X800XT PE. Again, while the 6800 ultra is a bit cheaper, it is just about on par with an X800XT PE performance wise (slight edge going to the X800 probably)

If your willing to wait, and want to upgrade to a pci-e motherboard, I highly recommend the X850 series, assuming availability isn't as bad as the X800 series. Another card that's looking nice for pci-e is a new dual GPU 6600GT that gigabyte is producing. While there isn't much imformation on it, the benchmakrs suggested that it outperforms a 6800 ultra and is slated to cost less.

[Coconut Monkey]

I suppose I wasn't very clear when I said that the 6600GT "beats of the pants off of an X800pro" Performance wise, the 6600GT generally outperforms the X800pro until resolutions are turned up to 1600X1200 and AA/AF are turned up. The fact that a $200 card is even COMPETING says it all. The 6600GT is faster at lower resolutions (for the most part) and still manages to mostly keep up at higher ones.

Would you mind linking to some benchmarks to prove this?

The 6800GT is certainly competing with the X800XT, and all the benchmarks show that it really depends on the application. While the price is similar to that of a X800pro, the 6800GT is competing with an X800XT.

Benchmarks again please!

[rcrevolution]

its true, the 6800GT does compete with the X800XT, and the X800XT PE competes with the Ultra but the ultra still beats the X800XT PE, all these benchmarks where the X800XT out performs the 6800GT and Ultra are coming from the HL2 benchmarks, where ATI used optimized drivers, Nvidia takes the win in almost everything else.

[Coconut Monkey]

its true, the 6800GT does compete with the X800XT, and the X800XT PE competes with the Ultra but the ultra still beats the X800XT PE, all these benchmarks where the X800XT out performs the 6800GT and Ultra are coming from the HL2 benchmarks, where ATI used optimized drivers, Nvidia takes the win in almost everything else.

Proof please? I've looked at one set of benchmarks (which I shouldn't completely rely on - hence my request for more!) and there are games where Nvidia takes the lead and others where ATI takes the lead. I could say that the benchmarks where the 6800GT wins out are all in Doom 3 which is optimised for Nvidia cards!

[oenone]

Fine fine, have your blasted benchmarks :P
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=6
That one shows a 6600GT vs X800pro (AGP). After much hunting, I was able to locate this, which summurizes an 6800GT vs X800XT matchup done by anandtech
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026285203

As you can see, it really varies from program to program between to X800XT and the 6800GT.

Rcrevolution, I think that it all comes down to preference. Some people prefer the X800XT over the 6800GT, some don't.

[Coconut Monkey]

Fine fine, have your blasted benchmarks :P
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=6
That one shows a 6600GT vs X800pro (AGP).

I don't see the 6600GT surpassing the X800 Pro very much. :-/

Rcrevolution, I think that it all comes down to preference.

Exactly! Consumers should base their purchases on what games they plan to play and whether they're concerned about image quality or pure frame rates. One card completely grinding another into the dirt in one single benchmark means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Plus you should look at a variety of benchmarks. Basing your decisions on one set isn't the best idea.

[oenone]

The X800 pro is outperformed by the 6600GT in lower resolutions with AA/AF off, for the most part. As the settings are ramped up, however, the X800 pro clearly begins to gain some ground. However, when you think about the $200 price gap in between these two cards, the 6600GT seems the clear cut winner.
Also, with game production being what it is, new games are always coming out. I wouldn't buy a computer just to play hl2, because hl2 won't be cutting edge for long. Likewise, the benchmarks show that the performance of a paticular card really depends on the game, and with new ones coming out so often it's silly to base your decision on one paticular game.

Between the X800 series and the Geforce 6 line, image quality is virtually identical. http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow/0,2394,l=&s=1017&a=128800,00.asp

For these reasons, image quality is never really an issue when deciding what card to get (if it's a geforce 6 or X800!). Personally, with the 6800GT vs. X800XT matchup so close, I would just go with whatever is cheaper at the moment. (6800GT) In the 6600GT vs. X800 Pro contest, I would certainly get the 6600GT for it's superior value. If I had $400 to throw around, I would just skip an X800 pro and go for a 6800GT.

The X850 series will probably change all this, assuming they have no manufacturing problems.

[Coconut Monkey]

Image quality can be more personal preference though - you or I may see no difference in comparisons, but others can be incredibly picky.

Following that line of thinking, the same people can insist on always running with some level of AA or AF and a minimum resolution, which is why the X800 Pro would be a more tempting prospect (even though I wouldn't recommend it - I agree with you that the 6800GT is a far better buy).

I still don't think you shouldn't be comparing the 6800GT and X800XT, but that's just my opinion. ;D

[oenone]

Let's just agree on this. There is so much fluctuation in the benchmarks, from reviewer to reviewer, and from game to game, that it is impossible to call a clear cut winner and it really comes down to personal preference.

[Coconut Monkey]

Let's just agree on this. There is so much fluctuation in the benchmarks, from reviewer to reviewer, and from game to game, that it is impossible to call a clear cut winner and it really comes down to personal preference.

Agreed! :cheesy:

[SeroVectra]

whoa, started a debate, awsome. Here's another question, is it bad in any way to buy a third party vd card? Like gigabyte.

[oenone]

Nope, gigabyte is a very respectable company. Most manufacturers just stick to the reference for the chip, and there isn't much of a change from one to the other, unless they pre-overclock their cards.

[nizzy1115]

well first off if you have an agp graphics card like u do then the answer is no your motherboard wont support pci e. and yes there is a big difference beween the three cards and a big price difference too. My take on the situation is to recomend the nvidia 6 series because there are the newest technology that the x*** series dont have.

[nizzy1115]

I am considering purchasing an ATI Radeon x800 type card.

Is there any significant difference in the Radeon x800, Radeon x800 pro, Radeon x800 xt.
Other than the clocked speed for each.

How would I know if my comp. supports PCI express or not, (is it true that pci type cards clocked at a faster speed than agp?).

Also does any one think its really necessary to buy a top of the line card whil still possesing a:

Intel pentium 4 2.0ghz
256 mb ram
Nvidia Geforce 4 ti 4200 128mb
bios RG8105A agp 4x
HD: 80gb hittachi

The X800's are great cards, and yes there is a speed difference between the 3 cards and also a big price difference too. Your computer does not support pci express because it is an agp graphics card already. however if your agp is only running 4x then you should consider getting a new a motherboard first then a graphics card. 2 ghz is enough but not a ton. i say get an 8x agp mobo that supports your same processor and save money by going with a middle of the line graphics card if you dont want to upgrade your processor. I am personally against paying the money for a super high end graphics card as in 6 months they will be half the price. $200 in my mind is the max that should be spent on a card. So bottom line, if i were you i would get a new mobo and the 6600gt for $200, and build a new rig in a year if you are serious about gaming.

[Coconut Monkey]

Whoa, thread resurrect!

however if your agp is only running 4x then you should consider getting a new a motherboard first then a graphics card.

Wouldn't make much of an impact nizzy - there's hardly anything separating AGP4X and 8X in performance. ;)

[nizzy1115]

I agree about the agp 4x vs 8x but if your spending all that money on a great graphics card wouldnt your want to get what you paid for it, if not i would say never to spend that amount of money on it...his processor is a 2.0 ghz it isnt slow but it isnt fast either and that would be his weak point of his system limiting the performance of his graphics card, which in mind doesnt match spending that amount of cash on a x800 pro or xt.

[Coconut Monkey]

Ah, but you can always buy new core components later. The X800 Pro (well, I would suggest a 6800GT, but that's another story) would be a nice performance increase in the meantime.

Then again, there's the whole PCI-E debate as well (in which case I'd recommend an X800XL) and then you would need a new motherboard and CPU anyway.

Choices!

[nizzy1115]

ya i agree about the 6800GT if you are planing to upgrade later with another agp setup but not to pcie, i guess it depends on which way you want to swing