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I am 13 and i really want to create a game and go commercial I would want to know which language is for both PS3 AND PC or Xbox and PC. dont suggest me an easy programming language or :MAKE YOUR OWN GAME!: program that gives you everything in your mouth.I want to start from the roots, not with easy programs where you can do mediocre stuff. the type of game I want to create is something like a GTA (it doesnt mean i want to make a crappy copy of it) I mean the quality. I do this because I like computer stuff and am much like a cool nerd... I even know HTML, how to make a virus, and how to even make an antivirus and if you help me I can give you a copy of the game if you put your hotmail(not a spammer.) the kind of game I want to create is in 3D and its something like getting the freedom of vicecity and kinda building a city in an island. pls help. (consider me kinda noob)

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  • I did not start from game development. Actually my first book was C++ for dummies (I really loved it) and I read a number of other books on C++. The DirectX book I am reading right now assumes that I know a lot about programming and some Windows stuff too, … Read More

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lol, I am 13 too. To make a game you will have to learn programming. Get a nice C++ book first. But most kids get bored of it really fast and they want to make "cool looking games" instead of doing basic stuff in command prompt. But if you are serious try XNA, It is for X-Box but I think it works on Windows too (maybe you will have to get a special runtime library to run it). I don't think There is any stuff that will also work on PS3 and Computers. For PC use DirectX, it is the best and I am learning it right now. OpenGL is dieing out. Also, you will DEFINETLY not make a game like GTA. They have A LOT of good programmers and DESIGNERS and it takes them YEARS to make a game. The best you can make by yourself is a small shooting game without much special effects.

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C# using XNA is going to be your best bet for PC and Xbox game development. Unfortunately, you won't be able to start with anything other than the "easy" stuff. Know that HTML is not a "programming language" in the sense of creating an application. Patience is the best thing for you in this. Pick up a Game Development book from your local bookstore or online. I recommend Learning XNA 3.0: XNA 3.0 Game Development for the PC, Xbox 360, and Zune by Aaron Reed. If you try to jump ahead, understanding what you are doing will be nearly impossible.

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C++ works on xbox, pc, playstation, android and most of the embedded systems. Go for it but it will be hardcore.

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C# using XNA is going to be your best bet for PC and Xbox game development. Unfortunately, you won't be able to start with anything other than the "easy" stuff. Know that HTML is not a "programming language" in the sense of creating an application. Patience is the best thing for you in this. Pick up a Game Development book from your local bookstore or online. I recommend Learning XNA 3.0: XNA 3.0 Game Development for the PC, Xbox 360, and Zune by Aaron Reed. If you try to jump ahead, understanding what you are doing will be nearly impossible.

First he should learn c#, or something basic. Jumping straight into game development is not good

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First he should learn c#, or something basic. Jumping straight into game development is not good

I agree. Sorry that I didn't clarify on the order of things. I was just trying to get the point across that just because someone can write code doesn't mean they know how to write videogames. That is why I suggested a book for it. Virtually every book related to programming starts out the same basics of hello world the progresses forward. Just because a book is called a game development book doesn't mean that it's beyond a beginning coders grasp.

Edited by TheJohnSpecko: n/a

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Before anything else i'd like to say try using The Dark GDK it is purpose built for games programming. and it uses C++...

You can do this at 13 but you will need a lot of help. maybe consult your schools head of IT for some information.

he should learn c#, or something basic. Jumping straight into game development is not good

I dont think this correct as many books that i read suggested there is no real point in learning c# or just C before C++ because if you want to learn C++ you don't want to get mixed up with c# syntax. Learn c# after C++ if you desire for it.

C++ works on xbox, pc, playstation, android and most of the embedded systems. Go for it but it will be hardcore.

This is right but i'd like to add if your thinking on programming games for the iphone you cant do it in C++ as far as i know also i believe you need to do this on an apple system? I'm just adding this because you didnt specify which platform.

C# using XNA is going to be your best bet for PC and Xbox game development. Unfortunately, you won't be able to start with anything other than the "easy" stuff. Know that HTML is not a "programming language" in the sense of creating an application. Patience is the best thing for you in this. Pick up a Game Development book from your local bookstore or online. I recommend Learning XNA 3.0: XNA 3.0 Game Development for the PC, Xbox 360, and Zune by Aaron Reed. If you try to jump ahead, understanding what you are doing will be nearly impossible.

XNA will be good for you as it is a framework. however it is not an engine so i doubt it will contain many 'fancy effects' unless you write them out.


I would also like to add, having graduated from uni with programming in C++, Unreal script as well as other things. also by joining some uni like computer club thing with a bunch of other students ( come on we've all been their ! :D )I have come to know that game development is an extremely time consuming hobby. At uni me and some other students tried to make a fps we got through the game play fine but the cut scenes and multilayer was just too difficult for the 8 of us. I remember when i was 13 and i dream of going commercial but it never happened... Ever wondered why there are so many credits at the end of EA commercial games? That's because it takes that many people to make a quality commercial game selling around $40.

Anyway to make this post somewhat helpfull and not a time for reminiscing, i'd suggest using the irrlicht engine, it was suggested to me when looking for links to refresh my memory on unreal script. With the irrlicht engine you dont need to learn a new language like unreal script. You just use C++. Also irrlicht is thoroughly documented with many tutorials on how to do things. Ask any questions if you need to.

Anyway i hope this somewhat helped

NSSLTD

EDIT: Wait you know how to make an anti virus? if you make an anti virus you cant make it in HTML so use whatever language you used to make the AV to make your game. i'm guessing the AV was made in c++?

Edited by nssltd: Missed something out

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HEY. I have plenty of time and a lot of people (9) And I can spend more than three days without sleep working. come on just because I am 13 that doesnt mean I am retarded or without patience. I would really like to get a book and read but I can do that just online, because people here in Honduras are very lazy, dumb, complain for everything (worst than the Israelites on Egypt of the times of Moses)(19 of every 20 Hondurans are like this...very sad) etc. that they dont let the government go forward and build a ******* library. Like I mean I read all this replies and got me angry. Like another 13 year old told me kid (sergent). and I told you I didnt want game developement engines. ''I WANT TO START FROM THE ROOTS'' doesnt tell you something?
Thank you TheJohnSpecko for the book but I never said that HTML is a programming language. actually I HTML says it itself: Hyper Text <b>Markup Language</b>.
And sergent again REMEMBER I AM YOUR AGE just becaused I asked for and actually posted ''consider me kinda nooby''

he should learn c#, or something basic. Jumping straight into game development is not good

I said which one is compatible not which one i should start from.
plus I think you jumped directly to developement too! Didnt you?
And you NSSTLD guy you are obviously a Mac User just replying everything playing genius. you are just concerned that if Actually make this game and it succeeds you will want to play it but... UUHH OOHH! it is not compatible. yeah!
and I told you no game developement kit.
HOW this ''which programming language is best'' thread turn to be a ''what we should tell to this nooby about programming?''thread
I am actually planning to finish this when I get to have 15.
please dont threat me like an Idiot or A TODDLER.
Thanks to sergent (i will like to contact you (I am actually making a forum webpage for young programmers)
and thanks to the other guy THEJOHNSPECKO for recommending me that book.
plus thanks to tellalca for the '' Go for it but it will be hardcore'' phrase that i actually thought it was motivating but at the same time telling you how hard the path will be. and thanks to the other Mac brainwashed user.

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I'm sorry? Have you ever hear of a widely distributed commercial game made by a team of 13 year olds ? No. Have you ever wondered why the credit's at the end of games are long? You probably haven't even considered this. This is because everyone has an individual job to create a quality commercial game. It takes years for professionals to make these games. To think of them, to get the concept correct. As well as all the other things. I have been to university i have done all the hard work, i have the knowledge. i've been in the same position as you. Personally i use pc's and mac's...

But its a sad day when knowledgeable people are getting flamed by over confident 13 year old's who are still so young in this world...

Commercial companies use game engine's they need them. EA use the UE3. Do your homework before writing these idea's off. If you want start from the roots and make your own good game by yourself. i expect to see the release in a very long time...

Also making all the concept art? Making the look? how are you going to do this? What programs will you use to create maps and/or models? You should of thought this through more. Had a plan of what to do and what you need. You can just jump in head first especially if you only know html.

I can help you wherever you want if you'd let me. but the only reason i'm replying know is because you acted badly when i said you probably wouldnt do it. You can't make games with this attitude.

Sorry for any harsh words...

The_Mac_user..?

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I did not start from game development. Actually my first book was C++ for dummies (I really loved it) and I read a number of other books on C++. The DirectX book I am reading right now assumes that I know a lot about programming and some Windows stuff too, so it is absolutely not for beginners. You CAN make a 3D game yourself but it still will be nothing like GTA IV (or any other game like that). They release GTA every 2 years, and they still just modify the game (heavily) and do not make it from scratch. I will be glad to work with you if you want to and we can make SOME game, but it will be nothing like the games the big people make. I do not expect to make any money of it too (I use Linux mostly lol, so go open-source!).

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Finally someone gets it from my poiny of view, but says it in a kinder way :)
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Wow, people here are really nice. If this where any other forum, I would feel the burn from the flaming lol.

As stated before HTML is not a programming language, it was created to present data, not calculate it.

If you want to start from the roots, then you need to have a very knowledgeable understanding of the language of your choice. You are not going to create a game engine by knowing the basics, there are too many high-level concepts to deal with. Like threading, memory management, GPU based acceleration, cross-platform issues, and much much more.

In a commercial level game, you will need your own assets, or you will be faced with law-suits. A team of modelers, texture design, core game developers, network programmers if going multilayer, pipe-line management, advertising, concept artists who can give the modelers proper aspect ratio and design templates, etc.... The list goes on.

Start with something small, like a scrolling platform clone, or a 2D top-down style game just to get your feet wet. Use python, c++, java, hell even javascript. As knowing the concept is more important than the language.

As for your anti-virus and virus creation, I highly doubt you would know where to even begin with such a thing. Especially if you need advice on which language to use for game dev. And the stupid batch files that open themselves isn't a virus btw, nor anything you find on youtube.

One person development is completely out of the question though, there are plenty of one person dev teams making games for mobile platforms like IPhone and Android. But even then, to go 3D requires a good understanding of OpenGL ES.

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If you want to create cross-platform game I recommend you learn a bit of c++ and after that jump into OpenGL (it's not dieing out as somebody said) books i recommend: accelerated c++, OpenGL superBible( fifth edition)
This is only my opinion...

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OP - Being rude, whiney and racist will get you nowhere in life. I was about to just flame you into the ground, but seeing as you seem genuinely interested I decided to tone my post down a bit.

I don't think any one person on this forum (or anywhere really) are both technically and artistically capable of making an entire game from scratch of the same caliber as GTA within 3 years. I don't think you even come close to understanding what goes into one something like that.

And from scratch? Really?? Do they teach advanced trig, calculus, or any other advanced level math subject required to build the foundations for the graphics engine to 13 year olds these days? Because they didn't teach it to me and I paid thousands of dollars for my education. I'll tell you what. Come back here with a function that calculates relative distance between objects in an infinite matrix with respect to a POV vector and maybe people will take your 'from scratch' idea a little more seriously.

I am a nice guy, so I will post the client and server for a game I wrote in college with a partner. It's written in C#, and uses Winsocks, Direct3D and XNA (just for compatibility with an xbox360 controller) so porting it to PS3 would be a no-go. It's riddled with shortcuts that I would never (and nor should you) do nowaday so don't try and make a lesson plan out of it. Also note that this took me and another guy about 3 Months To Make and is infinetely crappier than GTA both graphically and technically. I hope it puts into perspective what you are trying to accomplish.

Edited by skatamatic: Attachment didn't work

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The best thing is UDK!
Get a license to Unreal Engine to make games to Xbox, pc and ps3. Or you can use the free one on http://www.udk.com wich only works for PC. Unreal Enine is a massive game development studio, wich uses a Unreal Script, similur to c++.
Gears of War and Army of 2 is made in UDK. And a loot of more grt games ;)

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Well, xbox dos not only use c# :)
But for a private development you can use c# to make a game. But you can also use c++ or java. Call of Duty uses c++

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mac user...do u still blive in miracles..thn let the boy do his stuff..u jst ve to answer the questions..nt more than that..i wonder hw you passed universty

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You should try Unity 3D. When you make an awsome game, then you can publish it to Playstation, Xbox, Pc and mac. They let you suppport Ipad or ISO file :D
It uses C#, javascript and Boob

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I am a nice guy, so I will post the client and server for a game I wrote in college with a partner. It's written in C#, and uses Winsocks, Direct3D and XNA (just for compatibility with an xbox360 controller) so porting it to PS3 would be a no-go. It's riddled with shortcuts that I would never (and nor should you) do nowaday so don't try and make a lesson plan out of it. Also note that this took me and another guy about 3 Months To Make and is infinetely crappier than GTA both graphically and technically. I hope it puts into perspective what you are trying to accomplish.

Rewrite it in C++ please. lol :)

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XBOX uses C#

If all the games for X-Box were made with C#, it would all be slow as hell, and no-good graphics games would be made for X-Box

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If all the games for X-Box were made with C#, it would all be slow as hell, and no-good graphics games would be made for X-Box

And where did you get this fact from? Or is this just an uninformed opinion?

Edited by skatamatic: n/a

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And where did you get this fact from? Or is this just an uninformed opinion?

Tell me one game that is using C#? C# is a waste of time because it is only for Windows, and runs slower then C++. It is not uninformed opinion. It is a known fact. Also most of the games are made for many different platforms. Playstation, Macs and Linux's don't have C#, so do you want game developers to rewrite complete game in different language?

Edited by sergent: n/a

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First off, I want to say that I love C# and I'm not a C++ zealot. I use C# all the time for a variety of tasks.

Secondly, nobody uses the forms designer in a game anyway so what does it matter?
Reasons to use C#:

The language is nice.

Reasons not to use C#:

It's slower than snails. Lots of benchmarks say it's not. Sure, you can get 90% of the speed of C++... in certain situations, but overall with a game engine you're going to see at least a 50% framerate hit what you could have acheived if you had written your game engine in C++.

Why is this? You'll need to look at what the JIT generates and see for yourself. But look closely at how poorly it inlines anything, if at all. Look at how well (or not) the FPU optimization is. Compare it to what the C++ compiler generates.

C# also basically requires you to use unmanaged C++ anyway to get 16-byte aligned data, if you want to effeciently use SSE instructions. Okay you say well you're going to write all of your vertex skinning in C#. Have fun with that, buddy.

The bottom line is, you're not going to get the next Unreal or Doom engine in C#. The hard-core stuff is going to stay in C++ for a while. As soon as I can get an engine that runs 95% as fast as it does in C++, I'll switch right over. But this means they're going to have to get their act together with the inlining, the memory alignment, and the FPU optimization.

Yes, I'm posting as AP, because as we all know posting a rant is bad for your rating. :D

This is from http://www.gamedev.net forum.

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I'd just like to add

mac user...do u still blive in miracles..thn let the boy do his stuff..u jst ve to answer the questions..nt more than that..i wonder hw you passed universty

Your questioning my ability to pass university, give me the respect and write it out properly. Also you obviously don't get the point of DaniWeb, or what this guy was saying.

Firstly on DaniWeb you dont just give out answers. You help people to figure it out with you or they will not learn.

Secondly he said he doesn't want it spoon fed. This to me implies he wants us to help him figure the answer out.

Thirdly refering to me as mac user. Very disrespectful. Yes i do own a mac but i program on a pc because thats how i was taught.

Just like'd to add some stuff to keep this all in order.

NSSLTD

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Wow this is weird... Well... To answer the question about making a good game - I'd aim for C++ and DirectX or OpenGL... but honestly before that I recommend starting out with simpler games.. for now I'm using SDL to wet my feet in and get a little used to how things work

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Tell me one game that is using C#? C# is a waste of time because it is only for Windows, and runs slower then C++. It is not uninformed opinion. It is a known fact. Also most of the games are made for many different platforms. Playstation, Macs and Linux's don't have C#, so do you want game developers to rewrite complete game in different language?

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/05/10/07/1912207/Creating-NET-C-Applications-for-Linux

A language is only a portable as the libraries it uses. This includes C# and C++.

People that like C++ tend to bias their benchmarks towards C++, while C# users tend to bias it to C#.

http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2009/01/03/debunking-c-vs-c-performance/

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cross-platform/BenchmarkCppVsDotNet.aspx

These are some real benchmark tests done with keeping bias to a minimum. C++ wins some, C# wins others. Really no true winner between the two. Sure C++ can outperform C# in raw arithmetic, but C# makes up for this by handling this data (sorting, filtering, etc) better. Both of the languages would be outperformed by raw machine code, but no one has written a game engine in that for quite some time.

Your source that you cited is a post on a forum somewhere with no real evidence to back it up, rather a subjective opinion that you seem to have adopted. By the way, the DOOM Engine could be written in PHP and still run at 60FPS.

Edited by skatamatic: n/a

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Quote originally posted by sergent ...
Tell me one game that is using C#? C# is a waste of time because it is only for Windows, and runs slower then C++. It is not uninformed opinion. It is a known fact. Also most of the games are made for many different platforms. Playstation, Macs and Linux's don't have C#, so do you want game developers to rewrite complete game in different language?
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/05/1...ions-for-Linux

A language is only a portable as the libraries it uses. This includes C# and C++.

People that like C++ tend to bias their benchmarks towards C++, while C# users tend to bias it to C#.

http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/20...c-performance/

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cross-...pVsDotNet.aspx

These are some real benchmark tests done with keeping bias to a minimum. C++ wins some, C# wins others. Really no true winner between the two. Sure C++ can outperform C# in raw arithmetic, but C# makes up for this by handling this data (sorting, filtering, etc) better. Both of the languages would be outperformed by raw machine code, but no one has written a game engine in that for quite some time.

Your source that you cited is a post on a forum somewhere with no real evidence to back it up, rather a subjective opinion that you seem to have adopted. By the way, the DOOM Engine could be written in PHP and still run at 60FPS.

Alright, I am writing game engine in Assembly now. Wish me luck everyone!

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And I guess I never heard of mono before, interesting link, but I still will stick with C++ :)

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