is dreamweaver is better tahn hand code?

[aarya]

i wonder when dreamweaver does all dynamic sites,flash sites,static pages. why we have to learn HTML,ASP OR PHP OR EVEN JAVA.?
really dreamwever is better than hand code?
is there any disadvantage compared to hand code.
thanks:rolleyes:

[stymiee]

Dreamweaver can only do easy/cheesy JavaScript code. Real functionality can only be done by hand.

[jbennet]

have you ever looked at the source for a website made in something like word or dreamweaver and seen how much unnecesarry crap is in there?

an editor is easier but writing by hand makes for more efficient and readable code

[FC Jamison]

I have to agree.

Dreamweaver derived code is absolutely horrible. I use dreamweaver, but only as a coding tool...not to do the coding for me.

You should know how to code by hand before using any program to do it for you...just like you should know how to add before using a calculator.

[MattEvans]

I find if i'm using Dreamweaver it's just to add colors to my code =P, and same with any editor to be honest. I don't even like functions that auto-close tags or auto "fix" my markup... generally they don't have a clue what I'm trying to do and cause more trouble than they're worth...

Dreamweavers generated code is substantially better than MS Word's.. but it's still somewhat inefficient, and if you don't know what your code is because you've laid down a page using WYSIWYG tools, you wont have a clue how to fix that code if a problem arrises.

[GreenDay2001]

Dreamweaver could be used just to make very simple simple pages. It of course generates unncessary code , but atleast its better than others. And yes you couldn't make whole flash sites, never, for that you need to know flash.

As far as making dynamic pages, dreamweaver has few features that allow you to connect to database, create simple log in pages etc. But if you want to do what you want to have you need to learn HTML, CSS etc etc...

Dreamweaver is very good for coding, but personally I use Homesite+ and WeBuilder. I like them much better.

And yes at last, WYSIWYG couldn't compete wth hand coding, never ever.

[roryt]

Dreamweaver produces really unvalid code at time and the only way to fix it is to get you hands dirty! Hand written code is also easier to read and can be faster aswell.

[GreenDay2001]

Hand written code also make you familier with the structure of your document, by structure i mean the code structure.

[roryt]

Hand written code also make you familier with the structure of your document, by structure i mean the code structure.

That is a very good point because I know from xperience that if you create something in a wysiwyg editor and try and find something in the html it can be very hard. Plus you can change the structure of your code to make it easier or maybe even harder to read... Have a think about that...

[Targowski]

Dreamweaver can help in learning code greatly, especially with its functionality to label certain snippets or tags of code by using different color pallettes.

Though, usually if I use dreamweaver I delete whatever's naturally generated by the program and start myself, by hand. There are better and more efficient ways of coding than some of Dreamweaver's methods, though I still do like to use it for its ease rather than Notepad - even if I do hand code something.

You can always collaborate software, Dreamweaver and Notepad (or other rich text editors, possibly?) for fine code if you know what you're doing.

I learned the basics of code, though, using Dreamweaver before reading any books and then improved upon my existing knowledge by reading some more books ... So I'm definitely thankful for the program, but there are better methods.

[MattEvans]

Quantra is a very nice editor... it has its own micro-FTP client kind of like Dreamweaver's... and it colours in all kinds of code...

If I'm on Windows I use EditPlus2... simple and effective.

[roryt]

Dreamweaver can help in learning code greatly, especially with its functionality to label certain snippets or tags of code by using different color pallettes.

Yeah it can be very useful when you are hand coding and especially when you are about tyoe a hex value it pops up the color pallet which is very useful.

[jwenting]

hmm, as long as you don't start thinking the bad things Dreamweaver (and other wysywyg tools) do are actually good...

While it has improved and is often better than the competition, that says more about the sorry state of the competition and previous versions of Dreamweaver than about the product itself.

None such tools are good for more than rapid prototyping of sites, to get an idea of what the layout will look like, before the real coding effort starts using proper tools like VI.

[MattEvans]

using proper tools like VI.

Is that a joke? There's certainly nothing to gain in using an outdated tool over a modern one...
VI annoys the flip out of me.

All I look for in an "editor" is a directory listing on the side, the ability to open more than one file at a time, a built in FTP/CVS client, and maybe autocoloring/autoindent of code.

Dreamweaver has these things, so Dreamweaver is good as a glorified Notepad with extras.

Whatever Dreamweaver does 'automatically'; it doesn't do it because you want or need it to, it does it because someone decided to put that feature in Dreamweaver, and so anything Dreamweaver can 'provide' you, has been 'provided' to the thousands+ of people who also use Dreamweaver.

If you want something even half original, use "Code View" all the time, and unless you want a tonne of extra work, don't even go into "Design View" :- it doesn't give a good representation of how a page will actually look in a browser.

[jwenting]

no, that's no joke.
VI is by far the most productive editor out there once you get to know it for many purposes.

[roryt]

All I look for in an "editor" is a directory listing on the side, the ability to open more than one file at a time, a built in FTP/CVS client, and maybe autocoloring/autoindent of code.

I agree with this but I don't use dreamweaver's FTP I just like a good simple one like Filezilla.

About the whole design view not giving you an accurate representation, this is totally true and drives me insane because sometimes it would be nice to view the page there.

[MattEvans]

VI is by far the most productive editor out there once you get to know it for many purposes

Well. the resultant productivity of an editor has got to be a combination of its ease of use and its functionality... and unless I'm in the dark here, I know of no features in VI that make it any more than a text editor - please correct me if it does have mystical hidden features.
But even if it does; it is certainly not easy or friendly to use. I used it for a very short time and only to edit configuration files... then I pressed some key combination and it opens everything in write-lock mode =P
I'd rather use MSDOS edit, it's got a nice old-school color scheme and drop down menus ^_-

I agree with this but I don't use dreamweaver's FTP I just like a good simple one like Filezilla

Dreamweaver's FTP aint so nice... but it's certainly handy if you're doing something big, and your local directory structure exactly matches the one you want on your webserver. If I don't intend to use the FTP in Dreamweaver, I don't use Dreamweaver =P

I think, coloring in code keywords/tags is the biggest must. I can't easily interpret any language if it's all shown in black and white.

Everything you do in Dreamweaver though, has to be done by 'hand'. Until computer's know what we want them to do from our brainwave patterns and do it for us; it's gonna be that way. Even dragging and dropping is a creative process, and picking a pre-made template involves a few mouse clicks...

I guess the debate is along the lines of "is it better to use macro tools when editing or better to leave them well alone and use little keypresses instead".

Well, Matt say: "little chisel good for attractive patternwork, big chainsaw good at leveling trees".

So, not to carry that analogy too far.. once you've made a woodpile, put the chainsaw down and get your chisel out; and if a great forest lies before you, the chainsaw is gonna save a lot of effort in the long run.

You'll find, the more affinity/love/whatever you'd call it that you have a for a given project, the more effort you'll put into it making it unique and of-yourself. If you're working for a load of clients who all want roughly the same thing; I wouldn't say it's wrong to use Dreamweaver templates, pre-made or customized. But, in the long run, they probably wouldn't save you much time or effort.

[jwenting]

VI takes practice, like any complex piece of equipment, to master.
I'm not surprised you couldn't get to grips with it in a few minutes. It may look like notepad but looks are deceptive.

[roryt]

What about crimson editor. It is really good for hand coding, you can open multiple files and it colors them correctly. What are people thoughts?

[GreenDay2001]

Well crimpson editor is quite good as freeware, but I think there are several other good options too when you seek for a freeware editor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_text_editors

[roryt]

That is a good point, I never thought about half of them. It would be really good if it had auto completion. That is a really great feature.

[MattEvans]

Context autocompletion is ok, but autoclose and auto 'put what should be here' drives me crazy... In Quantra (and I think Dreamweaver) putting <table> throws in a <tr><td></td></td></tr> aswell by default,

Quantra's auto "sanitise" code is terrible aswell... Imagine if every time you close an element, the editor tries to find the corresponding start tag, and replaces its tagname with whatever you closed with... Now imagine it doing that if you're typing tags in 'backwards' for whatever reason.

At least it's easy to turn off...

Context CSS assistance in Quantra is pretty terrible aswell.. It assumes that, whatever style you're defining, after every prop:value; line, you want the first alphabetic property in there aswell (background). And no keypress will stop it putting that background: line into the style. You actually have to use the mouse to get rid of it. Almost makes me wish I used VI instead =P

With context and autocomplete, it has to have been well written and rigourously tested or it's better turned off. Dreamweaver's is quite well done, but I find it's not particularly configurable.

[GreenDay2001]

For a good freeware web editor try: AceHTML 5 and HTML-Kit(this one is really very good).

[roryt]

I quite like the dreamweaver auto complete for the css but the html close tag drives me MAD.

If only they could understand what we were thinking...

[GreenDay2001]

I quite like the dreamweaver auto complete for the css but the html close tag drives me MAD.

If only they could understand what we were thinking...

Then u must try MPS HTML GATE or MPS PHP DESIGNER

[roryt]

I tried HTMLGATE and it was really quite good. Nice interface and I really like that color pallet.

You can download it here http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/MPS-HTMLGate-Download-119.html

(it was really quite hard to find one that worked!)

Thanks Vishesh

[GreenDay2001]

I tried HTMLGATE and it was really quite good. Nice interface and I really like that color pallet.

You can download it here http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/MPS-HTMLGate-Download-119.html

(it was really quite hard to find one that worked!)

Thanks Vishesh

Well, for the past few years, i worked with several editors and all, and the thing i noticed that every editor has its own unique feature, atleast one. e.g. I like UltraEdit for its intendations, HomeSite+ for many thing, WeBuilder(Which i currently use, and i love it). You would like HapEdit if you write asp applications etc etc...

[GreenDay2001]

Oh yes, i like editors which loads fastly, works fastly, good interface, have some tools,intendation and syntax highlighting.

Due to lack of speed, i dont use DW

[jbennet]

Visual studio?

Its a major competitor to dreamweaver in terms of features...

[GreenDay2001]

Well, till now I have used Visual InterDev 6, and it was reallly good in view of that age. I havn't used Visual WebDeveloper yet, but i have Visual c++ 2005, and the html editing is really good, i mean superb intendations and all, so WebDeveloper must be rocking.

Please tell me about it.