Network cable is un-plugged! No it isn't. - Page 2

[zeroth]

Cozzy, he´s replying to my post and I apologize for getting in the middle of your problem - here´s some more info on the original question:

OK, I think we are narrowing down the situation. However, because it's XP and I use Win 2K, I can't help you all the way.

First, when you are connecting two computers back to back, the issue is different than when you are using a router. You say you have a router, I believe the easiest solution is to use that.

In that case, the router gets the cable from the modem (there should be a plug in the back of the router marked "internet" or "modem" or the like). Then each computer has a cable from it's nic (you can't get this wrong if you are using ethernet cable) to a plug in the back of the router (since you have already plugged the modem into the router you can´t confuse this)...

Win2K (again, I don´t know about XP) almost configures itself for a local area network, so if you have your computers set up with discrete names, which has already been gone over in this thread, and you have the same workgroup set up for both, you should get a connection on both computers. While you have both of them downstairs, I would suggest you do this operation while the computers are side by side, saving yourself some stair time.

One more thing to consider. If I´m not mistaken, you need a crossover cable to connect two computers together. Using a router, you cannot use a crossover but need a ¨normal¨ cable.

There are some more steps involved to test the system but I´m not going to deal with that since you are using XP and I can´t help you on that. But if you get a cable disconnected message, you are never going to be able to do anything. And with the computers connected together like you are trying to do, there are other issues involved with sharing that can give you problems.

btw, I´m confused about you statement about dialup. I though you said in one post that you were using ADSL modem connection. There´s no dialup involved there...

[aeinstein]

I borrowed mt sister's PC & tried all combinations, ie, connect 1 to 2, 1 to 3 & 2 to PC 3, & they all told me the network cable is unplugged when it is definitely connected up.

You can't connect two computers directly to each other with a regular(straight-thru) ethernet cable; you must use what's called a cross-over cable. I rechecked the thread and see that you mentioned that you're unsure of what a cross over cable is, so let me advise you how to check, because it is very important to know the difference between these two types of standard ethernet cables.

A standard ethernet cable (RJ-45) will have two male plugs, one on each end of the cable, that are almost exactly like a telephone wire jack plug (RJ-11), the only difference being that the ethernet cable ends will be two or three times the size of a telephone wire end (some ethernet cables will come with a little rubber/like boot covering most of the connector; if your cable(s) have these just push them back off of the connector for the time being).

You should see a little tab on the connector, which is what you squeeze to take the cable out of the the computer/router/DSL modem/etc. - if the connector is missing the tab the it's either broken off and you need to replace the connector(s)/cable(s), or if it is simply not there then you have the wrong cable(s) and once again they will need to be replaced with the correct cable(s) - hold each end of the cable in each of your hands so that they are oriented in the same way. The way I do this is I take my thumb and place it ontop of the connector's tab - not over the end of the connector itself - and then place my hands side-by-side so that the sides of my thumbs are next to each other. Then I tilt my hands back towards my chest/chin so that I can look head-on at the ends of the connectors. From this vantage point it should be apparent that there are colored wires running within the connector. Comparing the sequence of these colored wires you will see that they run in the same order, lets say from left to right, for both cable ends if the cable is a straight through cable, and, typically, the first and last colored wires are reversed if the cable is, yep you guessed it, a cross-over cable.

Let us know what cables you have!

[zeroth]

Cozzy, I'm right about the crossover cable but the matter can get confusing. I now believe this may be your problem. I got the following from a web site, sorry I couldn't just give you a link.

***********************************
Ethernet crossover cables are most often used in home networks when connecting two ethernet computers without a hub. An Ethernet crossover cable has it's send and receive wires crossed. When using a hub or switch, this is automatically done for you.
[img]http://www.homenethelp.com/images/transparent.gif[/img]
Unfortunately some devices like cable and dsl modems have their actual ethernet plugs reversed. This is to allow people to hook up a cable modem to a computer without a special crossover cable. When adding a hub into the mix, the issue can get confusing.
[img]http://www.homenethelp.com/images/transparent.gif[/img]
Most modern hubs and switches have what is called an uplink port on them. This is the same kind of 'reversed' port that is on a cable or dsl modem.
***********************************

Again, if you have a router, the issue is much more simple and we can get your net working without much more trouble. I suggest you list your router and modem equipment in your next post exactly, with brandnames, model numbers, etc, exactly what kind of modem it is, ADSL, dialup, cable, etc.

[zeroth]

Sorry Aeinstein, I got in the middle of this thread and confused the issue with the long cable problem. I just posted about his crossover cable situation without seeing your last post, so I'll back off and let you handle it from here since you probably know XP.

zeroth

[aeinstein]

Sorry Aeinstein, I got in the middle of this thread and confused the issue with the long cable problem. I just posted about his crossover cable situation without seeing your last post, so I'll back off and let you handle it from here since you probably know XP.

zeroth

no prob dude ;) i actually don't know that much about XP - well, alot more than a non-techie but alot less than a techie into OS's - so this might well be something you may want to keep an eye on. for know, with the "network cable unplugged" indicator, it's still a physical connectivity issue and that plays to my strengths in networking. one way or another we'll get cozzy u/r!!! ;)

[zeroth]

OK! Yeah, I think we´ve narrowed down the problem. But I´m only coming at this from a theoretical viewpoint because I don´t know anything about the different modems and routers he might have. And I don´t know what would happen if he has a normal cable from the modem to one computer and a normal cable then running from computer A to computer B. I tried to set up a dialup account one time like that and it was problematical at best.

But if he´s connecting two computers directly via a normal computer, then he hasn´t got a network, so we have hit the problem on the head.

However, I´m running Win2Kpro and it sets up everything for a local network for you, so if he´s got a router, it should not be a real problem. I just don´t know anything about XP, as I´ve never run it and don´t want to. But, even though he´s said he had a router somewhere (it´s hard to search through all the verbage in this thread) I don´t see anywhere where he has tried to hook both computers to it...

[garycib]

Sorry to butt in on this thread people. You can try this link http://www.downloads.xdelta.co.uk/topinterim%202005/soho%20network%20diagram%20issue%201%2007mar2005.pdf for an accurate block diagram of a networked system, the major difference being that the blocks "ADSL modem" "Firewall" "Web Filter" "Router" and "ethernet switch" are actually in the router however your Mentor router may not have all of these. From what I've read it is not obvious that the Mentor router is connected via the bt filter to the phone system as it should be, also the bt modem is redundant as you should be using the built in modem in the Mentor. All of the computers Network Interface Cards (NIC) should then connect via the ports on the router using RJ45 terminated Cat5 cable straight wired and not cross wired check this link out www.nj2t.net/personal/support/files/CAT5_Cabling.pdf - no computers should be connected together directly. Check this link out for Mentor configuration http://www.cazart.plus.com/conexant/ (some Mentor modems use a conexant chipset but without the model number who knows). Hope you get somewhere soon Cozzy
An alternative way is to use a gateway computer see this link http://www.networklab.co.uk/cmodem/cabling.html

[zeroth]

Yeah, Gary, that´s good stuff. Check it out, Cozzy.

You can hook two computers together though, if you use a crossover cable. That kind of cable makes the connection a network, and you can use one of them to connect to the internet.

It is more difficult to get this to work, however.

[aeinstein]

...http://www.downloads.xdelta.co.uk/topinterim%202005/soho%20network%20diagram%20issue%201%2007mar2005.pdf...

good stuff and all, but i'm thinking this is gonna be a bit of information overload, especially for someone who may or maynot be conversant in information technology paradigms. afterall, if we can't establish whether or not cozzy has the correct cables the rest is moot.

so cozzy, let's hear about those cables! ;)

[cozzy]

Yep good stuff indeed, hope it's going to be helpful. Zeroth, i mentioned 'dialup' because thats what it says when i go to internet connections folder. Also, when i connect to the internet it says it's dialling 0,38. We used to have a slow dialup connection before we upgraded to broadband & the icon is still there in the folder & in properties, but says 'disabled'.

Garycib, thanks for the links, i'm going to check them all out after this post. I am very confused when you mention the BT modem should be redundant! Does this mean i should not even be using the BT ADSL modem at all? Is this because, (as you say), there is a modem inbuilt in the router? Please will you clarify this?

Einstein, I do not see any network interface cards anywhere. Should i be buying a few cards? Am i missing something major here?
The cable i'm using to connect the PC's together is; YFC UTP CAT.5E PATCH 150/IEC 11801 & EN 50173 & TIA/EIA 568B.2 3P VERIFIED FOR GIGABYTE ETHERNET-24AWG x 4P TYPE CM (UL) C (UL) CMHE161469
The router is made by Mentor. ADSL.MR4C/UK. Supports Annex A (ADSL over POTS). High speed internet access bridge/router. IP routing-RIPv 2.

I'll wait before attempting again coz i've always still had the BT router connected up with all my previous efforts.
Cheers.

[aeinstein]

...I do not see any network interface cards anywhere...YFC UTP CAT.5E PATCH 150/IEC 11801 & EN 50173 & TIA/EIA 568B.2 3P VERIFIED FOR GIGABYTE ETHERNET-24AWG x 4P TYPE CM (UL) C (UL) CMHE161469...

i'll skip over the comment that you don't have any interface cards for now. please follow the instructions on how to determine if you have a straight through or cross over cable, as posted above. :)

[cozzy]

Garycib, thanks for the links. Are you saying that i should not be using the modem at all? You said it becomes redundant when using a router.

Einstein i really do not know still what a crossover cable is. The shop we bought the 2nd PC from knew exactly what we wanted it for, that is to connect it up to our other PC so that we have 2 working PC's that can access the internet. I've written all the info from the cable in my last post, can you not tell from this info what type it is? It's a 5 metre grey cable with what looks like telephone connecters on both ends. There is a little plastic release lever that i have to press to remove the cable from the PC. There are i think 10 tiny copper strips where it connects. I cannot peel back the ends & meddle with wires, (ref. to your recent description of types of cables), the ends are sealed in plastic & i can see the 10 copper strips of wire through the plastic.

Maybe i also have 2 crossover cables? Because when i've connected the PC's, modem, router & microfilters, i still have 2 short cables left over. these came with the router & are only about 60cm long. Goodness knows what they are! Besides, there is nowhere to put them anyway, apart from back in the box.

[zeroth]

Hi Cozzy,

Well, the explanation from Aeinstein about determining if you have a crossover cable is back up the thread somewhere. It has become hard to find anything here.

But we need to find out if you are using a crossover before we can go further. The whole problem may be just that. Once it is determined that´s your problem, then the rest of the setup becomes a lot more simple...

If the problem is not that cable, then we have to go in a different direction.

zeroth

[aeinstein]

You can't connect two computers directly to each other with a regular(straight-thru) ethernet cable; you must use what's called a cross-over cable. I rechecked the thread and see that you mentioned that you're unsure of what a cross over cable is, so let me advise you how to check, because it is very important to know the difference between these two types of standard ethernet cables.

A standard ethernet cable (RJ-45) will have two male plugs, one on each end of the cable, that are almost exactly like a telephone wire jack plug (RJ-11), the only difference being that the ethernet cable ends will be two or three times the size of a telephone wire end (some ethernet cables will come with a little rubber/like boot covering most of the connector; if your cable(s) have these just push them back off of the connector for the time being).

You should see a little tab on the connector, which is what you squeeze to take the cable out of the the computer/router/DSL modem/etc. - if the connector is missing the tab the it's either broken off and you need to replace the connector(s)/cable(s), or if it is simply not there then you have the wrong cable(s) and once again they will need to be replaced with the correct cable(s) - hold each end of the cable in each of your hands so that they are oriented in the same way. The way I do this is I take my thumb and place it ontop of the connector's tab - not over the end of the connector itself - and then place my hands side-by-side so that the sides of my thumbs are next to each other. Then I tilt my hands back towards my chest/chin so that I can look head-on at the ends of the connectors. From this vantage point it should be apparent that there are colored wires running within the connector. Comparing the sequence of these colored wires you will see that they run in the same order, lets say from left to right, for both cable ends if the cable is a straight through cable, and, typically, the first and last colored wires are reversed if the cable is, yep you guessed it, a cross-over cable.

Let us know what cables you have!

here it is cozzy; if you still can't figure out which cable you have bring to a computer store or pc repair shop & someone there will let you know

[cozzy]

The cable i'm using to connect the PC's together is; YFC UTP CAT.5E PATCH 150/IEC 11801 & EN 50173 & TIA/EIA 568B.2 3P VERIFIED FOR GIGABYTE ETHERNET-24AWG x 4P TYPE CM (UL) C (UL) CMHE161469
The router is made by Mentor. ADSL.MR4C/UK. Supports Annex A (ADSL over POTS). High speed internet access bridge/router. IP routing-RIPv 2.

I cannot peel any wires back (ref to einstein's description of crossover & ethernet cables). Still not sure if it's a crossover cable. I've posted everything from the box it came in & everything that's written on the cable itself. I cannot see any red wires & to peel back the ends would mean the cable would be then damaged.

I've been to 3 different shops & have bought the same cable 3 times & have tried them all. I got an old PC from the attic & tried it on that. It also, like the others says "a network cable is unplugged".

Garycib told me i should not be connecting the modem at all when using a router as it makes the modem redundant. I've asked 3 times for this to be clarified but still awaiting a reply. Also. i have asked several times if i should be connecting one microfilter, 2 microfilters or none at all, but again, i still have not got a reply.

I've looked into BT's help on how to share broadband on 2 home PC's & it DOES NOT even mention using a router AT ALL! Now this is really doing my head in.

[DMR]

The cable i'm using to connect the PC's together is; YFC UTP CAT.5E PATCH 150/IEC 11801 & EN 50173 & TIA/EIA 568B.2 3P VERIFIED FOR GIGABYTE ETHERNET-24AWG x 4P TYPE CM (UL) C (UL) CMHE161469...

I cannot peel any wires back (ref to einstein's description of crossover & ethernet cables). Still not sure if it's a crossover cable. I've posted everything from the box it came in & everything that's written on the cable itself. I cannot see any red wires & to peel back the ends would mean the cable would be then damaged....

I've been to 3 different shops & have bought the same cable 3 times & have tried them all.

Unless the packaging of the cable you bought specifically stated that it is a crossover cable, it is not. The information stamped on the cable itself will be of no use here, because the actual wire that's used to make straight-through and crossover cable is the same; the only difference between the two types of cable assemblies is order in which the individual wires in the cable are inserted into the RJ-45 connectors at each end.
Just because you told someone at a shop what you wanted to use the patch cable for does not mean that they sold you a crossover cable. Many supposed computer techs and/or salespeople simply do not know what a crossover cable really is or why/when you need one.

As already stated, you don't have to alter/mangle/destroy the cable in any way to determine if it is a crossover cable or not; all you need to do is carefully examine the order in which the individual color-coded wires are inserted into the RJ-45 connectors at each end of the cable. If your eyesight isn't the greatest, there might be a bit of squinting or a magnifying glass involved, but determining the cable type involves nothing more than visual inspection.

The following link has a very-easy-to-understand explanation on the subject, along with images of how the wires in the RJ-45 connectors should look:

http://www.aptcommunications.com/ncode.htm

You only need to look at the first two pictures at the top of the page for reference. If the wires in the RJ-45 connectors at both ends of your cable are arranged like either the left (T-568B) or right (T-568B) picture, your cable is straight-through. If one end of your cable is arranged like the left picture and the other end is arranged like the right picture, you have a crossover cable.

Not being familiar with the modem and router you have, I can't provide any clarifying information on that side of the situation without doing a bit of research; if I can find the time to do that soon, I will.

After reviewing this entire thread, I do have one general suggestion: stop changing your network configuration scheme around during the course of this- we'll never get this sorted out if the variables keep going back and forth between a computer-to-computer Internet Connection Sharing scheme to one in which a router is introduced into the equation; the two schemes require entirely different hardware and software configurations.

[zeroth]

After reviewing this entire thread, I do have one general suggestion: stop changing your network configuration scheme around during the course of this- we'll never get this sorted out if the variables keep going back and forth between a computer-to-computer Internet Connection Sharing scheme to one in which a router is introduced into the equation; the two schemes require entirely different hardware and software configurations.

Amen to that.

DMR, the reason I thought it was likely he has a crossover cable involved is that when you get the ADSL kit, many times they give you both types of cables to make certain every contingency can be met by the installer.

[cozzy]

If the end connector is flipped over, so that the release flap is facing towards the floor, then if i look down at the connector i see Red, Red, Blue, Green, Green, Red wires in that order, from left to right. All 3 cables are the same. I cannot see any brown wires like the ones shown on your link Zeroth.
There are no orange or stripey wires either, like on the ones shown.

[DMR]

i see Red, Red, Blue, Green, Green, Red wires in that order, from left to right...

That only adds up to 6 wires; CAT3/CAT5 data cabling contains 8 wires in it, and the RJ-45 connectors have 8 contacts/conductors. If you've only got a 6-wire, 6-conductor cable, it's not the right kind of cable.

I cannot see any brown wires... There are no orange or stripey wires either, like on the ones shown.

The color-codes for the 8 wires are also standard. If the wires in your cable(s) don't follow that color-coding, I'd again say the you don't have the right cable.

[DMR]

... when you get the ADSL kit, many times they give you both types of cables to make certain every contingency can be met by the installer.

True; good point.

[cozzy]

Thats it! Thanks a million for your help. I've given in trying to connect the two puters together to share an internet connection using a router. I'm gonna purchase a wireless set-up from B.T. & see if that works. Although i hear there are a load of problems with this method like neighbours being able to view what you are viewing etc or sharing your connection! Also, i've heard that with a wireless set-up it is more likely that the connection would more likely be dropped. This would be absolutely disastrous if this kept happening...with what i use the puter for mainly.

[DMR]

1. Unless you're in an area where there is a lot of interference in the wireless frequency spectrum, or your wireless signal has to pass through lots of physical obstacles like thick concrete walls, you shouldn't have much trouble with dropouts or signal reception. The best thing to do is to test the positioning of your wireless access device and then install it in the location where you achieve the strongest signal strength over the widest area of coverage. Locating the device up high and out in the open (read: don't stuff it under your office desk) will usually give you the best coverage. If you want a good program for (among other things) monitoring wireless signal strengths, try NetStumbler.

2. Most (if not all) consumer wireless device have little if any security enabled by default, but you can certainly configure your wireless network so that it is secured against access by outsiders.

[cozzy]

Thanks DNR i'll go ahead with that. Anyone want an ADSL Router? I'ts free.

[DMR]

Let us know if you need any help with the WiFi setup.