Posts by SnowDog

Actually, unless you know something you haven't said and have extensively tested the PSU in another machine, technically it still could be the PSU. But at this stage it would be the least likely.

You said you'd tried different HDDs - does that mean you have formatted and installed the OS and correct drivers for the machine as part of your diags when trying those drives?

Does the BIOS have an option to let you check the CPU temperature? It is possible that the compound on the CPU and fan has cracked so there could still be an overheating issue.

When it shuts down does it flash up a blue screen briefly or just go off?

Does it shut off in Safe Mode?

Does it shut off when you have all extra peripherals removed (modem, printer, etc.)?

You've answered all the questions and come up with exactly the same conclusion I would: that something must have caused mobo 1 to fail, and now it has done it to mobo 2 after you put it in there.

Since you know what you are doing, forgive me asking this, but you did all the swapping with the power disconnected, didn't you?

What PCI/AGP components are involved? Can you list them?

I agree. It can also keep on frying new mobos.

Well, if it works fine in Safe Mode I think you're on the right track waiting for that Windows disk.

In Safe Mode you're just running essential or generic drivers and processes and obviously (well, more or less) whatever it is causing the problem isn't running.

If you still get the problem after recovery/reinstall then that is a different matter, of course.

Back up everything you need while you can.

Out of interest, how many items do you have running in your startup list?

The only time I've seen systems OK in Safe Mode but still have problems in normal mode after a full recovery is when ATI graphics cards are involved (just one or two cases).

This may help you get started:

http://javascript.internet.com/forms/strip-characters.html

You just tell the script which characters to want taken out and it does it. I haven't tested this script, but this source is usually very good.

It isn't a security thing. It's just what happens when you copy from one application and paste into another most times.

I notice it most in forums where people type their replies in Word and then paste that into the rich text editor because that way they can use a spellchecker.

If you use PHP you can use the preg_match function - or one of the string handling functions - to strip out the characters you don't want. But it is always going to take a bit of effort to clean it up if you grab your content that way.

What are you copying and pasting from?

Unless you are copying pure text from a text editor, anything you grab from a website or Word document will likely contain some formatting characters and these will show up as odd characters or little squares.

Try pasting into Notepad and see what happens.

The reason those characters show is because that's what you're pasting into your code.

I was asking because if Norton GoBack is on there it can cause major, MAJOR problems.

We deal with a lot of machines which have the Norton package hard-sold (or given 'free') to the customer at the time of purchase and most times the box contains Norton Internet Security, Ghost (both 9 and 10, I think), and GoBack. People tend to install every disk without knowing what they do.

GoBack tries to be a million times cleverer than it is and supposedly enables you to roll your machine back to an earlier time if you encounter problems. But what it doesn't handle very well is when the problem is with it itself. If you uninstall it (and it will let you) it can sometimes takes 3, 4, 6, or more hours (gives you an idea of how much disk space it takes up). Something that big is a large target when the something-gone-wrong gremlin appears on the scene.

If GoBack is corrupted your machine is often toast unless you have actual Windows disks and can get to the recovery console or get hold of various boot disks that allow you to get to DOS. And even then you might still not get anywhere. It messes up the MBR in worst cases. And like other Norton products, getting rid of all trace isn't a walk in the park.

Many machines have a built-in recovery partition and GoBack can really mess that up. Customers then have to buy …

Most RAM and HDD tools run from a boot disk, so yes you would be able to.

You haven't got Norton GoBack on there by any chance, have you?

That's good news! Sony usually get it fixed within 5 days (in the UK) so you shouldn't have long to wait.

You've done just about everything you can - and you've been taking great risks with your data doing all that.

The important thing now is to find out if the drive is faulty or not and you're going to have to reformat or maybe run a HDD diagnostic tool - both of which will put your data at risk again.

Get it backed up while you can. If the disk were to fail completely you've lost it all. You still have a chance at the moment.

Then do the format and see what happens.

I just did a quick search and it appears that this is quite possibly connected with a virus - the Brontok Worm is mentioned.

Just out of interest, what happens if you unplug everything from the computer, then connect the mains after you've had one of these lockouts? Does it start then? You never know, it might be something you have plugged in causing the trouble - best to be sure.

My money would be on either motherboard or PSU being at fault.

Surely the complexity has always been there. It's just awareness and understanding of it that has changed, resulting in being able to use it in different - and far more useful - ways?

That's a good point. In none of the cases I've dealt with has the HDD been taken out. Once the mobo and PSU are replaced (sometimes followed by the keyboard) the machine works again.

But as I said, if they use a substituted mobo then it needs new drivers if the machine is going to be expected to work properly, and that means a full recovery - especially when you consider the state many peoples machine are probably in as far as the Windows installation is concerned!

You can't use " inside the echo - you have to escape any occurence of " with \", so that line in the middle should be:

echo ("<a href=\"$link$title\">$title</a>");

Otherwise PHP thinks the echo has ended and gets messed up. And you should put ( and ) each end of the echo containing the "s which are part of the syntax.

Same on your other lines - put the ( and ) in. So:

$title = $row["location"];
        echo "<tr><td>";
            echo ("<a href=\"$link$title\">$title</a>)";
            echo ("</td><td>");
            echo ("</td></tr>");
            $count++;

But I'm also a bit confused about $link$title in the anchor tag. What would each variable typically contain in an iteration?

So is it sorted now? You can see what you need to do?

When I looked for your motherboard, assuming it is an M15-S405 (there are two M15 models), I found prices ranging from $500-$750 depending on whether it is factory-direct or reconditioned.

http://www.sparepartswarehouse.com/devicetype-vendor-modelline-modelseries-partlist.aspx?devicetype=0&vendorlevel=ModelSeries&modelseriescatid=68733&partcatid=0&filter=2

You've also got to remember it might be other components affected as well. The keyboard is almost certainly affected and they cost about $50. If RAM is damaged that costs $150. And you won't know until you get it looked at, which will also cost.

I'm not saying those are the only possible costings, but I'd suggest that anything substantially lower in price might come with its own set of problems.

It's a horrible situation to be in. You end up paying whatever happens.

Can you actually get into Safe Mode?

Have you unplugged all peripherals and tried?

Does the Acer Recovery system have a 'partial recovery' option, do you know? You could consider that. Or does it allow you to load the Recovery Console?

I've recovered files before using both BartPE and Knoppix:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
http://www.knoppix.org/

You'll need a working system somewhere to use BartPE (i.e. set it up), but neither is particularly easy to use unless you know what you are doing.

Another option would be to run the full recovery, then install this program:

http://www.recovermyfiles.com/

We used that a few months ago on a customer who said he wasn't warned that a full recovery would wipe his data. It got everything back.

An easier option would be to take it to a PC store and pay for them to back up data. Then you can recover it using your disks.

I always feel that unless you know EXACTLY what has happened, and have managed to fiddle with it and make it 100% right, a full recovery is the safest option when disk corruption has (possibly) occurred.

No, that sounds fine. Go for it.

I'm trying to figure out how you spent a couple of grand on it when the mobo costs $50 to replace now.

It's not an older machine, is it? PCs do not hold their prices at all. $2000 spent on a machine back in 2002 would get four machines, each considerably more powerful today.

But the main thing is you can see a clear way forward, and that's what counts most of all :)

And it shouldn't.

If you're happy with it as it is that's what matters.

I have this vague recollection that one of the Windows updates was intended to fix a vulnerability in this or a related process. I can't help wondering that if by fixing it (or trying to) something that was exploiting it had a hissy fit on your system.

It certainly isn't normal behaviour, and although being forced to turn off Windows Update might send a geek or two somewhere into ecstasy, it isn't a good thing in the long run.

Something's not right. Ah well.

To be honest, they almost certainly will have noticed if there had been any accidental damage. And I take it that your extended warranty doesn't cover accidental?

That STOP code points towards a possible hardware issue with the memory or motherboard (according to Microsoft). It can be software related, though.

If I was diagging this for a customer I'd get them to run the recovery disks to either eliminate the problem (hence it was a software issue) or not (so it is a hardware problem).

At that point, at least you know which way forward you have to go to get it sorted.

Liquid spills can easily cause this kind of problem. You've got to imagine what happens when you blow-dry spilled Sprite on a polished table: it leaves a pile of gloop behind.

Well, it does that inside a laptop as well ;)

Are you sure that's a solution and not just sweeping it under the carpet?

Automatic updates shouldn't do that, and you would benefit more by having it turned on rather than by being forced to turn it off for some unknown reason.

How many items have you got running in your Startup list?

To be honest, in spite of this particular issue I'd have to put eMachines pretty high up the list of reliability when compared with other manufacturers. Not at the top, but nowhere near the bottom.

This is a specific issue that eMachines may yet have to deal with. But in other ways they're pretty good machines.

I'm surprised they're only sending out the mobo, though. If the PSU is causing the problem it'll just take every new mobo out. By now, it would have been more cost effective for them to have just done the mobo and PSU in the first place. To the best of my knowledge, they should be using substituted parts and is is BOTH components in the original machines that are faulty.

That's different - in more ways than one. You probably won't want the cheap parts I mentioned.

Glad you sorted it.

Be careful using a vacuum cleaner in a PC - it creates static!!!

OK. preg_replace isn't the way to go - it appears that there's a bug of some sort from what I could find on the subject. Sorry for misleading you.

This definitely works, though, because this time I tested it before opening my big mouth :(

# $res is the variable containing the dirty string
$mystr = str_replace('\\', '', $res);

You need to make sure you use it just before you display the string because if you pass the cleaned string, say, between pages PHP adds more of those damned backslashes.

It definitely works, though.

If Norton won't uninstall in the normal way, get the uninstall utility from the Symantec site.

Well, in the UK mobos start at around £30 ($50-ish). PSUs start at around £10 ($15-ish). You've got to make sure the mobo you choose will accept your processor, though (starting with the type and pin configuration).

There's potentially a lot more to it and you might have other blown components. In the long run, it might be worth (i.e cheaper) thinking about a whole new machine assuming this one isn't a high-spec system or anything.

Burning smell = not good.

Something's burnt out and in situations like this we'd send an engineer out with a motherboard and PSU and take it from there.

There's no reliable way of knowing what has been damaged without testing or changing them to find out.

Well, if it is OS related its going to be expensive finding out it isn't a HW problem - all for the sake of not putting the original back as a diagnostic.

Manufacturers can do strange things without realising it. I know of one older range of machines which won't take SP2. No solution, they just won't take it and there's nothing actually 'wrong' with them.

It's your call.

If we were handling it on our tech support lines, the first thing to do would be to put the original OS back using the restore disks - simply because it is the quickest way to find out if there's a HW problem or not. We don't support anything other than the original OS/installation for reasons just like this: until you have the original configuration back you never know what is going on.

Does the HW show up in Device Manager under 'other devices' or anything like that?

Why did you put XP Pro on there anyway? Was there some specific feature you wanted? We get a lot of people doing this simply because they think Pro is better than Home or MCE, but they don't actually need it.

It is also my understanding that MCE is essentially Pro anyway.

Does it do it in Safe Mode?

You stated it does it randomly, which in turn implies that it can happen if the computer is just sitting there. So the Empire at War thing is a bit of a red herring.

It shouldn't do it, so you've got to pin it down through a logical approach.

Eliminate the monitor if possible (if it's a TFT they have been known to do this sort of thing). Remove all external devices - you never know (some USB-powered modems can be a pain). Then focus on the GFX card - uninstall and reinstall the latest drivers. Can you get hold of a cheap card to try (NOT on the Empire of War game - just to see if the blanking still occurs).

You've got to prove or eliminate things one at a time.

It also appears it is still under warranty. Don't forget that. After all, why should you have to buy any extra GFX cards or other gear to fix a hardware problem?

I think it's the way you're describing it that made me ask. I'm not sure how you can tell the CPU (as in the chip inside) is shutting down, so I wanted to find out.

As I see it - and correct me if I'm wrong - the problem you have is that the machine (as in the tower or case, which you're calling the 'cpu') is shutting down but you can still hear fans, yes? You turn it on, it shuts off, but fans are still running? But not every time.

Does it do it when nothing is plugged into it except power (and maybe monitor)? That'll eliminate anything on the outside.

What PCI or AGP cards does it have fitted?

Thing is, something's wrong and you've got to try and pinpoint it to fix it.

That's fair enough - if there was more than one problem then they have to be attacked one at a time once the recovery is done.

I suspect they did a full recovery (as in reinstall back to factory settings), but you implied that it 'fixed' the problem. Did it? Did the problem go away for a while when they talked you through that?

The STOP code is important because it can point you in the direction of what is causing the problem. Just the first part of it, not the big block of stuff that comes after. It'll say something like STOP 0x000000xx.

I know it isn't exactly what you had in mind, but you CAN use your MP3 player in the car quite easily.

I'm not sure where you are, but:

http://www.itripstore.co.uk/category/351/Creative_FM_Transmitters.htm?gclid=COXV3avHg4gCFSByQgodh0B-Fw

These have been around in the US for years. I use the Audiax, having tried a homemade stereo FM transmitter and the Belkin Tunecast II. The Audiax is superb.

Incidentally, I'm not 100% certain what Apple's DRM in iTunes tracks has got to do with Microsoft.

What is the STOP code it gives on the blue screen?

And if the tech people fix it, is there anything your mother might be doing which could explain it? Is it whenever she plugs in or installs a certain external device, for example?

You can download RAM and HDD test utilities which will help prove or eliminate those things.

What exactly do the tech people do when they fix it for you?

Remember that the beep is only telling you the memory is a problem.

If it was playing something similar to Flight of the Bumblebee in beeps then maybe that would implicate the mobo ;)

Fingers crossed.

Disconnect the mains and remove the battery (and everything else you have connected).

Try powering from mains only with the battery out.

If that doesn't work then you know that something's broken and you can move forward from there.

The next step is to find out if it is the adapter, the laptop, or both. Since your machine appears powered on battery only but doesn't do anything, the laptop certainly seems to be implicated. But make sure you get the adapter tested because it could have been that failing which took out the laptop if there is a fault.

Try the battery reset thing first if you haven't already. I've had situations which on the outside look exactly like this but a simple battery-out-battery-in fixes it. Not always, but sometimes...

If it takes time for it to be able to start up again then overheating is certainly the first thing to look into.

Does your BIOS have a temperature monitor in it?

Does it shutdown if you leave it in BIOS with all your peripherals out? If it does, it is almost certainly a hardware or overheating problem.

If it is, you're looking at just cleaning the fan (if you're lucky) through reseating the heatsink, up to reapplying heatsink compound and reseating everything and getting a new heatsink and fan in the worst case (just one possible series of remedies based on the assumption about overheating).

You need to use a script to strip out the unwanted codes.

In PHP you could use the preg_replace:

http://uk2.php.net/preg_replace

Or if you wanted to use JavaScript here's an example with cut-and-paste code:

http://javascript.internet.com/forms/strip-characters.html

So, does this machine actually turn on and have you got a Windows or Recovery disk to hand?

Can you get into the BIOS?

Any error beeps?

Are all unnecessary peripherals uplugged? Indeed, what happens if you try booting with nothing in except the mains? Make sure you unplug the mains for a while when trying that test.

Is the boot sequence correct if the machine wouldn't boot from the Knoppix disk?

What exactly happens when you turn it on? Anything? Or nothing?

If anyone calls with this problem (or one similar) where I work the first line of attack for us is usually to get a full recovery done as soon as possible, then - if it yields a working machine - run some diags on HDD and RAM.

I'm surprised you attacked it the way you did. Disabling things on a machine which is clearly telling you the current problem at least is on the HDD (missing or corrupt file) is heading off in a different direction.

If a HDD is still readable, you can fit it into another machine as the second drive (using an adapter if it is a laptop drive).

But if it isn't readable there's not much you can do yourself. You need to talk to data recovery companies and find out how much it will cost.

When we need people to do Windows reinstalls or if a new HDD is needed, and they start kicking off about all the data they haven't backed up, I tell them that even a basic recovery (putting the drive in another machine) is going to cost them around $100-150. After that, you rapidly move up to around $1,000 or more for professional recovery on dead drives.

They have them here:

http://www.tradebit.com/filesharing.php/1/140

Only cost $7

Can I clarify whether or not one of the boards - after it has failed - can be used again once if it is removed and used in, let's say, a new build?

Or is the problem resulting in dead boards?

In my experience, all you do is phone the number Windows gives you during the first run/out-of-box-experience pages.

You should already have the key somewhere if you have an eMachine (stuck to the side or bottom of your machine). eMachines are supplied with recovery CDs, although substitute mobos are being fitted on many because the originals are no longer available and these are supplied with a new set of CDs when we fit them.

Just to put this into perspective, I've built numerous PCs for myself and others and none of them have ever had problems (yet), and many are older than most bought desktops out there..

It depends on the components and how well you put it together, closely followed by how you install the OS on it later and all the necessary drivers. Too many people start installing their games (the reason many get involved in this) as soon as they see the Welcome screen and that's where things can go wrong.

Mass produced PCs often use cheaper components to keep the price down, or have other limitations (no expandibility). They also have custom BIOSes and other bloated applications that make it difficult for the owner to do much with them without a lot of hassle, and features that the owner doesn't actually need.

The advantage of building your own PC is that if anything DOES go wrong you can fix it easily.

If that happens to a branded or mass-produced PC, unless you're in warranty it is likely to need a lot of messing about, quite possibly a third party's (the manufacturer's) involvement, and shedloads of cash to get their custom parts.

Each to their own. If you can, why not build one? If you can't, then of course: buy one.