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is what you're telling no shit?

Actually, I believe the correct phrasing would be "is what you're telling me not shit?" as in "either this is or is not shit". In any case, I still use the expression "no shit?", no matter how grammatically incorrect it may or may not be.

Or would that be "may or may no be"?

I believe I'll start drinking heavily now.

Votes + Comments
LoL, me too.
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You got trapped RJ. When you said "either this is or is not shit", you introduced definitiveness into the sentence by using the definite pronoun "this", and because "shit" qualifies the thing that is referred to by "this", it is now a definite use of "shit". That's why "not" is appropriate here. But that does not carry over to the "no shit?" expression. What indefinite means is that "no" is appropriate wherever you could use any of the following: "not a", "not any", "not some", "not one", ... and so on.. you get the point. I know that this is hard to understand, it's another remnant of a time when English had a more complex grammar and where such distinctions were far more obvious.

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I know that this is hard to understand

Rub it in, why don't you. Not the shit, obviously...

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"is what you're telling no shit?!"

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. I believe that your sentence

"is what you're telling no shit?!"

is syntactically equivalent to

is that no shit?

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If you don't know what you are talking about then how do you expect anyone else?? By your English grammer I take it you are not native English?

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LoL, I'm just playing around. I think my written grammar is quite good and have never gotten less than a B in university with papers and the likes. I'm goofy though, hence my last two posts.

Sorry, I'll stop now.

Edited by Stuugie

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okay after going through every post i came to this conclusion.Is it necessary that anybody who is inquisitive about something should open the english grammer book first then ask,say or narrate anything?i mean there are many countries in the world where english is not so popular though "english" is the global language.Even i commit lots of grammatical,vocab,spelling etc mistakes.so should i stop uttering or stop trying to speak or write in english??None in this world is a born "Shakespeare".So its my earnest request to those who belong from a country where the mother-tougue is "english" please neither make fun nor disgrace people of countries who are trying to make english language as one of their favourite" :)

Edited by m1k3.mca: please don't ask me the reason.i dint commit any crime :)

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I don't see this thread like that mlk3.mca, people here will still help those with really bad 'English' grammar. I think the many points made here are to smite the lazy-already-English people. We use English grammar as the reference because most of us posting in this thread speak English first.

Plus, a sense of humour is always good too.

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i do understand stuugie but there can be many who belong from non-english countries so i made that remark w.r.t those non-english souls of this community,n i dont think its a humour to make fun of those who dont have a good hand on english language,cause i belong from a non-english country and i respect every language and trying my level best to learn english.that's y took it personally.So if you can then please understand how it feels when you try to speak in a foreign language but that initiative is taken as some kinda humor :)(please pardon my grammatical errors)

Edited by m1k3.mca

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please neither make fun nor disgrace people of countries who are trying to make english language as one of their favourite

I have a lot of respect for people who have gone to the trouble of learning a second language. I don't believe I have ever mocked anyone for making an honest effort to communicate in their second language. As stuugie says, that is reserved for primary English speakers who do not even make a mimimal effort to communicate.

Votes + Comments
mlk3.mca wants me to teach him/her proper grammar and tenses. I had to politely say no. He/she is taking this way too personally.
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ya dats really not good,because people who belong from non-english countries require some help from global brothers to learn different languages,so we all need to communicate inorder to make this world "ONE PLANET",no racism,no hatred no mocking no underestimating :).n its good to know that our world is really ready to give a helping hand to needy .

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I think this is my fault RJ, as I was being goofy a few posts back. mlk3.mca has obviously taken my jesting personally. I will curb my sense of humour on this matter from this point on.

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Do other languages have the same problem? I mean, do native French people find bad French grammar among native French people appalling? I know of people right here in St Louis, MO who are 5th+ generation Americans that can't speak/written a comprehensive English sentence to save their souls. Those are type types of people we are criticizing, not the French, German, Russian, etc. who have little English education.

Edited by Ancient Dragon

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I don't like India spices, too hot for my blood.

Edited by Ancient Dragon

Votes + Comments
I really don't get mlk3's comments, neither here nor in my PMs. Oh well, I don't like India spices either. :)
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hmm good,& thanks,i also don't support any kinda politics on educational sites :)

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ha ha well said,even i am also not fond of spices and chillies :D but i like fish curry of india.

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My first language is Dutch and I don't like it when Dutch people make mistakes in Dutch on TV or in publications. I have been here on DaniWeb for quite a while now and never encountered any one who mocks my English. In fact (albeit a bit disturbing perhaps in the discission at hand) I would like a member to correct me if I make grammatical or spelling mistakes in English. I can only learn from it!

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same here,i also believe in learning.The situation now reminds me of one of the quotes of socrates "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing".it helps everyday in everyway to get better and better in every field just not in one language .

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I can only learn from it!

Alright, you asked for it. Here's a revised version of your post (at least, how I would revise it):

"My first language is Dutch, and I don't like it when Dutch people make mistakes in Dutch on TV or in print. I have been here, on DaniWeb, for quite a while now and never encountered anyone who mocks my English. In fact, quite à propos to this discussion, I would like a member to correct me on grammatical or spelling mistakes in English."

Edited by mike_2000_17: note

0

The only thing I would revise from your revision mike is the ',' after 'Dutch' and before 'and'. I have never liked seeing commas before ands except for when grouping like: 'I went to Winnipeg, Minneapolis, and New York today'.

That's my anal'isis!

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I think I like the original better -- "à propos" an attempt to mix French words with English. I've never ever heard anyone say or write that, had to google it to find out what it meant.

0

Alright, you asked for it. Here's a revised version of your post

Thanks Mike for trying, but as I can see, I did rather well. What I meant to say in the last part, was that it is perhaps annoying, while in the middle of a discussion about say a "prime function", to begin to talk about some gramatical details in a post.
I think and you perhaps, that my posts sometimes have "edges" because I don't "think" in English and I cannot always construct my sentences very well.

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is the ',' after 'Dutch' and before 'and'.

Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure on that. It's my understanding that if you repeat or change the subject across the "and" or "or", you have to put a comma. As in, "We ate in a restaurant and then went to the movies" (no change / repeat of subject "we"), compared to "We ate in a restaurant, and then we parted ways". But I might be wrong. I'm a bit of a comma-abuser, I like sentences to breathe.

I think I like the original better -- "à propos" an attempt to mix French words with English. I've never ever heard anyone say or write that, had to google it to find out what it meant.

The original was "albeit a bit disturbing perhaps in the discussion at hand", which makes no sense and was weirdly redundant. One way or another, this had to be reformulated.

The "à propos" expression is one that I have heard a lot in English, and in fact, much more so than in French, weirdly enough. In French, it is used as an introduction (circumstantial adverb), as in "À propos, je voulais vous dire..", where "à propos" essentially means "by the way". Or, it is used in "à propos de" to mean "about". But, it is very rarely used as an adjective, as it is used in English (that means "right on the subject of", "opportune" or "pertinent"). To be honest, I don't like too many French borrowings like that in English (like deja-vu, rendez-vous, etc.), but this is one that I like, because there isn't anything quite like it in English. And I thought this was common enough.

In this case, maybe this would work better: "In fact, quite to the point of this discussion, ..."

Thanks Mike for trying, but as I can see, I did rather well.

@ddanbe Yeah, you did very well. I mean, you asked to be nit-picked, so I nit-picked. But your level of English is pretty much that of a native speaking, with only a few artifacts of the "not thinking in English" thing, like you said, "edges".

And I'm not a native English speaker either, so, I also have plenty of artifacts of my pretentious French roots.

Edited by mike_2000_17: note

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I think we've done quite well so far, considering that most of us here are not native English speakers. While I like to see well written, correct-in-the-main sentences, over-the-top pretentious constructs send my glass eye to sleep.

//No I do not have a glass eye

Edited by diafol

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The use of commas has stirred quite a bit of controversy. I tend to put them in where I would naturally pause when speaking. For example, if I was relating a family story to someone who knows my family I might start with

Derek was on his way to badminton...

Whereas if I was relating to someone who did not know my family I would write

Derek, my brother, was on his way...

Commas in lists introduce pauses the same way as in

I went to Winnipeg, Fargo and Portland.

However, if you add qualifiers you might want to use semi colons. Compare

I went to Winnipeg, Manitoba, Fargo, North Dakota and Portland, Oregon.

with

I went to Winnipeg, Manitoba; Fargo, North Dakota and Portland, Oregon.

In this case the semi colon acts like a super comma forcing a clearer grouping

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