im seriously thinking about installing knoppix to my hdd i was gonna partition my C: drive. But im gonna purchase a new hdd in the near future and install linux on that. After gathering info to go about this ive found i need a grub or lilo for dual boot (i wanna keep xp pro for now) after a quick search on google ive become a bit confused as to which is the better of the two and also if these programs are self explanetory once put in to use.
Im aware that once installed knoppix will basically become debian which i have never used (ive never used any linux/unix program) so i hope its ok. But thats got me wondering what would be the best linux system to use as ive read lots about red-hat. now i dont know which to go for and i dont want to make the wrong decision as this could ruin my first real experience with linux :rolleyes: (ive been using knoppix live-cd for a couple of days)
please help as its better to find out from people with experience rather than trudging through lots of web pages ive been reading http://dsl.org/cookbook/ which has been helpful but i suspect is a little bit dated. Im also gonna read this http://frf.hypermart.net/linux-newbie/index.htm

thanks in advance

I tell you what it's a single cd, non-GUI install http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=31

Description: Libranet is a Debian-based distribution with an easy-to-use installer and system management functions.
With it's own forums http://www.libranet.com/

During the install, libranet will take care of your NT partitions & the bootloader. All you do is tell it which OS you want to boot first & how many sec you want till it boots in.

cheers weather channel
i just purchased a 40gig hd off ebay. so im gonna install on that. Forgive me but is libranet essentially knoppix i had a look at your link and saw a knoppix screenshot on there or is it an installer??
I have been looking at the info in your signature but they have gone although i have some of them bookmarked

thanks again

cheers weather channel
i just purchased a 40gig hd off ebay. so im gonna install on that. Forgive me but is libranet essentially knoppix i had a look at your link and saw a knoppix screenshot on there or is it an installer??
I have been looking at the info in your signature but they have gone although i have some of them bookmarked.

Knoppix is still a good choice, but you may want to wait a few weeks. Version 3.4 is due with the opening of the CeBIT show in Hanover, Germany mid-March. The new version will have a kernel 2.6 option and KDE 3.2 is likely, as well.

If you use Knoppix, Klaus just put out a maintenance release that clears up a couple of problems, especially with HDD installs. There's also a Debian-Knoppix mailing list for the really tough problems.

Nothing against Libranet, but I have personally had excellent results with my Knoppix HD installs -- and it's hard to beat the support you can find on and the mail list.

I have a dual-HD setup myself. I use GAGboot to make dual-booting easy, even with my wierd setup.

Knoppix is still a good choice, but you may want to wait a few weeks. Version 3.4 is due with the opening of the CeBIT show in Hanover, Germany mid-March. The new version will have a kernel 2.6 option and KDE 3.2 is likely, as well.

If you use Knoppix, Klaus just put out a maintenance release that clears up a couple of problems, especially with HDD installs. There's also a Debian-Knoppix mailing list for the really tough problems.

Nothing against Libranet, but I have personally had excellent results with my Knoppix HD installs -- and it's hard to beat the support you can find on and the mail list.

I have a dual-HD setup myself. I use GAGboot to make dual-booting easy, even with my wierd setup.

cheers tallcool1 ill give GAGboot a look the dual boot is the thing that im most worried about at the mo. But im sure it will be straight forward. as for kernel im still not sure what it is ive read a little on http://dsl.org/cookbook/ which has been helpful but i need to get some glasses sorted as the screen hurts my eyes after a while:sad: (poor little bugger) lol. but im well excited about getting linux up and running the cd is great but limited but still a very good introduction!!

cheers mate :D

...i need to get some glasses sorted as the screen hurts my eyes after a while...

You do realize that in Mozilla [Ctrl]+[+] and [Ctrl]+[-] respectively increase and decrease the font size, right? It's one reason that the seniors I teach like it. It works the same under Linux and Windows. Unlike IE, it's not limited to a range -- and Konqueror has no equivalent keyboard shortcuts.

You dorealize that in Mozilla [Ctrl]+[+] and [Ctrl]+[-] respectively increase and decrease the font size, right? It's one reason that the seniors I teach like it. It works the same under Linux and Windows. Unlike IE, it's not limited to a range -- and Konqueror has no equivalent keyboard shortcuts.

cool!! Ididnt know that. although im in xp at the mo and using IE:sad: . Although im thinkin bout installing mozilla on xp. ive just been faffing about with the view>text size in IE to enlarge the font.
So youre a teacher. I know it maybe the wrong thread for this but i wanna do a course on computing but dont know where to begin i dont feel like a new user (ive been using windows for about 4 years so not that long but ive learnt alot)and i dont think i need a beginners course. i want to educate myself so i can get a decent job using computers im only 21 but i have a 2 year old girl so dropping of my current job to go to college is out of the question (monumental mason). maybe you could advise on somewhere to start. as i really dont know where to begin.
sorry to plague you but if you could advise it would be great.
Thanks
Nigel

cheers weather channel
i just purchased a 40gig hd off ebay. so im gonna install on that. Forgive me but is libranet essentially knoppix i had a look at your link and saw a knoppix screenshot on there or is it an installer??


thanks again

Ummmmmmmmmm.................no,you can read up about each linux distro at LinuxISO.org and one from there may click on the project link,to read up more about a paticular distro.

"knoppix screenshot" Yeah, it looked alot like your screenshot in the Feb desktop thread. But those all are taken in libranet. That is a KDE session, I posted one from my libranet box yesterday in the that thread, it's taken from a iceWM session it looks alot like windows. I use Blackbox(session) on my laptop because it is fast.

Some people will suggest, a noobie to start with Redhat,Mandrake or fedora......While in all reality, those people probably use linux sparingly. They might say it's easy to install,update,configure,upgrade,install pkgs...ect ,this a false myth. In reality the more advance the easier the installing,upgrading,updating...ect That's why I sugested you use Libranet it's debian based so, you get to take advantage of the Debian pkg cellar.
EXAMPLE: Say you want to update your Libranet you will simply type in a terminal
apt-get update

Say you want to Upgrade libranet,you will type:
apt-get upgrade

Say you want Aim(GAIM in linux) to chat with,in the "Admin menu" internet package terminal you will type:

gaim

How hard is that? Not to mention it will take about 2-3 min, to update & upgrade Libranet compared to the 30, 40 min on the others I named, depending on your connection. People fail to take advantage of the apt-get feature in linux and that's ashame!
*edit I attached a tutorial on the install, "work smarter not harder"

Cheers,

Some people will suggest, a noobie to start with Redhat,Mandrake or fedora......While in all reality, those people probably use linux sparingly. They might say it's easy to install,update,configure,upgrade,install pkgs...ect ,this a false myth. In reality the more advance the easier the installing,upgrading,updating...ect

I disagree. It's not a myth at all, but a reality. Those distributions were designed with "easy" in mind, regarding installing and upgrading packages. Show me a first-time Linux user who knows anything about compiling from source or patching a kernel. All they have to know is "rpm -i filename.rpm" and it works for them.

What you're saying is, "the harder it is to do, the easier for them it will be." That's like saying, "If you don't understand it, it will be a piece of cake." The average person trying out Linux is curious, like all of us who've been using Linux for years are. They want to experiment with something new and/or different to them, see if they like it, and maybe use it. Others just want to see what all the hype is about. Others yet are looking for a real alternative to something with a Microsoft brand name on the package, and they need to find out which distro will work the best for them.

I recommend Debian to people wanting to "check it out" simply because it's a very good distro. Knoppix, Gnoppix, Libranet, LindowsOS, and a slew of others are all based on Debian, so they're pretty much the same underneath - they all use the Debian package management system. Fedora, Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat, and others use the RedHat package management system (rpm = RedHat Package Manager.) It's a matter of personal preference to the individual which one they use.

As far as only taking 2 to 3 minutes to update & upgrade a .deb system, compared with 30 - 40 minutes with others, I've seen Debian boxes take up to 2 hours to fetch/apply updates. It all depends on how up-to-date the system was to begin with, the connection speed, how many updates are being applied, and the system hardware itself. Not to mention the level of experience the Admin doing the updates has...

Some people will suggest, a noobie to start with Redhat,Mandrake or fedora......While in all reality, those people probably use linux sparingly.

I know a lot of enterprises using RedHat for DNS, DHCP, and firewalls, and the people who run them are experienced SysAdmins. It doesn't have to be "difficult" to be "good."

...just my 2 cents...

Ummmmmmmmmm.................no,you can read up about each linux distro at LinuxISO.org and one from there may click on the project link,to read up more about a paticular distro.

"knoppix screenshot" Yeah, it looked alot like your screenshot in the Feb desktop thread. But those all are taken in libranet. That is a KDE session, I posted one from my libranet box yesterday in the that thread, it's taken from a iceWM session it looks alot like windows. I use Blackbox(session) on my laptop because it is fast.

Some people will suggest, a noobie to start with Redhat,Mandrake or fedora......While in all reality, those people probably use linux sparingly. They might say it's easy to install,update,configure,upgrade,install pkgs...ect ,this a false myth. In reality the more advance the easier the installing,upgrading,updating...ect That's why I sugested you use Libranet it's debian based so, you get to take advantage of the Debian pkg cellar.
EXAMPLE: Say you want to update your Libranet you will simply type in a terminal
apt-get update

Say you want to Upgrade libranet,you will type:
apt-get upgrade

Say you want Aim(GAIM in linux) to chat with,in the "Admin menu" internet package terminal you will type:

gaim

How hard is that? Not to mention it will take about 2-3 min, to update & upgrade Libranet compared to the 30, 40 min on the others I named, depending on your connection. People fail to take advantage of the apt-get feature in linux and that's ashame!
*edit I attached a tutorial on the install, "work smarter not harder"

Cheers,

Thanks weather channel. as you say it seems simple enough ive just gotta learn the commands. Its gonna be fun. im the sort of person that easily gets bored when not learning something new (it does my womans head in, but i like it:lol: ) so i think im gonna have alot of fun learning linux. i havent looked at your install tutorial yet but i will give it a good perusing through. And i think i understand what youre saying about the more advanced OS.

Cheers chief!!

I disagree. It's not a myth at all, but a reality. Those distributions were designed with "easy" in mind, regarding installing and upgrading packages. Show me a first-time Linux user who knows anything about compiling from source or patching a kernel. All they have to know is "rpm -i filename.rpm" and it works for them.

What you're saying is, "the harder it is to do, the easier for them it will be." That's like saying, "If you don't understand it, it will be a piece of cake." The average person trying out Linux is curious, like all of us who've been using Linux for years are. They want to experiment with something new and/or different to them, see if they like it, and maybe use it. Others just want to see what all the hype is about. Others yet are looking for a real alternative to something with a Microsoft brand name on the package, and they need to find out which distro will work the best for them.

I recommend Debian to people wanting to "check it out" simply because it's a very good distro. Knoppix, Gnoppix, Libranet, LindowsOS, and a slew of others are all based on Debian, so they're pretty much the same underneath - they all use the Debian package management system. Fedora, Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat, and others use the RedHat package management system (rpm = RedHat Package Manager.) It's a matter of personal preference to the individual which one they use.

As far as only taking 2 to 3 minutes to update & upgrade a .deb system, compared with 30 - 40 minutes with others, I've seen Debian boxes take up to 2 hours to fetch/apply updates. It all depends on how up-to-date the system was to begin with, the connection speed, how many updates are being applied, and the system hardware itself. Not to mention the level of experience the Admin doing the updates has...


I know a lot of enterprises using RedHat for DNS, DHCP, and firewalls, and the people who run them are experienced SysAdmins. It doesn't have to be "difficult" to be "good."

...just my 2 cents...

I appreciate what youre saying the ogre. I can tell im gonna have to do more homework than i thought on choosing the right system.
im sure weather channel will correct me if im wrong but what i think he's saying is that the more advanced the program surely the more user friendly in terms of stability and day to day use. it could maybe take more stick than a less advanced system. and would be easier to use in theory as it is more advanced. maybe the learning curve is a bit more steeper to start off with.
dont get me wrong im not trapping off or anything and i appreciate the input i just think that maybe you missed the point weather channel was making.

thanks guys:D

More advanced does not always mean more stable, just like easy doesn't always mean unstable.

More advanced does NOT mean more user-friendly. Try Slackware to see what I mean.

Also, keep in mind that packages do BREAK. Not always, but happens sometimes. If you don't know how to fix it when it DOES break, you're going to have problems. ALL packages break at one time or another, from Debian to Slackware to FreeBSD. Knowing what to do when that happens is the important thing.

The point I was trying to make was just because something is easy doesn't mean it isn't good. Do your homework, look at more than one distro, and see which one YOU like the best. If you like the way Slackware resembles UNIX, great! If you like Mandrake's interface better than Debian's, great! If you prefer a .deb system as opposed to a .rpm system, go for it!

They're ALL Linux. There's just a lot more flavors of Linux than there are of anything else, which means you have more CHOICE. Take them all for a test ride and see which one you feel the most comfortable with, then learn everything you can about it. When you get bored with that one, try another one. Have some fun with it, too - you'll learn more ;-)

More advanced does not always mean more stable, just like easy doesn't always mean unstable.

More advanced does NOT mean more user-friendly. Try Slackware to see what I mean.

Also, keep in mind that packages do BREAK. Not always, but happens sometimes. If you don't know how to fix it when it DOES break, you're going to have problems. ALL packages break at one time or another, from Debian to Slackware to FreeBSD. Knowing what to do when that happens is the important thing.

The point I was trying to make was just because something is easy doesn't mean it isn't good. Do your homework, look at more than one distro, and see which one YOU like the best. If you like the way Slackware resembles UNIX, great! If you like Mandrake's interface better than Debian's, great! If you prefer a .deb system as opposed to a .rpm system, go for it!

They're ALL Linux. There's just a lot more flavors of Linux than there are of anything else, which means you have more CHOICE. Take them all for a test ride and see which one you feel the most comfortable with, then learn everything you can about it. When you get bored with that one, try another one. Have some fun with it, too - you'll learn more ;-)

i know what youre saying mate and i didnt mean it in a literal term. im struggling to find the words to express what i mean (whence the incoherent spells:cheesy: ) i just mean that if its more advanced then surely it has better built in features to upgrade and the like. Although i just found out that libranet classic edition 7.0 has not got (english)english language packet just (english)american. but im from the UK so maybe thats not the best OS for me. although after reading a review it got a good score 8/10. i think its really that or knoppix!!!

:D

Let me first start by saying, there are really only five types of Linux:

1. Linux standard (anything that comes in a box or is not spcified below)
2. Pitbull LX (the addition of DBAC and network flags and the existance of the SA, SO, and ISSO users represent an architectual difference)
3. Trusted Linux (This HP research project uses more traditional MAC via the Bell-LaPadula model as well as the SA and SO accounts seperate this system)
4. SE-Linux (the flask architecture with its RBAC and destruction of the root user differing from the previos two systems set this research project apart)
5. Not Otherwise Specified (this includes Linuces altered to work in fundamentally differing ways. Oddly this section isn't as common as you may think and in my career I have only seen a handful of these systems.

Anyone disagree?

I disagree. It's not a myth at all, but a reality. Those distributions were designed with "easy" in mind, regarding installing and upgrading packages. Show me a first-time Linux user who knows anything about compiling from source or patching a kernel. All they have to know is "rpm -i filename.rpm" and it works for them.

Taking into mind the steps of installing opensource app's in some types of linux.
Steps on installing if your a noobie.
EXAMPLE: 1#(Libranet ect...)
1.Type app name in a fetching term.
2.Run app
--------------------------------------------------
EXAMPLE: 2#(SuSE ect.....optinal for most)
1.Find app on internet manually.
2. Download app manually.
3. Extract app manually.
4.Cd to app manually.
5.Config app manually.
6.make app manually.
7.make install app manually.
8.(process could end at step 5 with a extra step after)
9. Run app.

Rpm's you still have to find,download...ect
I'll let the people do the math on that one!

What you're saying is, "the harder it is to do, the easier for them it will be." That's like saying, "If you don't understand it, it will be a piece of cake." The average person trying out Linux is curious, like all of us who've been using Linux for years are. They want to experiment with something new and/or different to them, see if they like it, and maybe use it. Others just want to see what all the hype is about. Others yet are looking for a real alternative to something with a Microsoft brand name on the package, and they need to find out which distro will work the best for them.

Pls, do not spin.

I recommend Debian to people wanting to "check it out" simply because it's a very good distro. Knoppix, Gnoppix, Libranet, LindowsOS, and a slew of others are all based on Debian, so they're pretty much the same underneath - they all use the Debian package management system.

Bonus! no comment

Fedora, Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat, and others use the RedHat package management system (rpm = RedHat Package Manager.) It's a matter of personal preference to the individual which one they use.

Reffer to my example.

As far as only taking 2 to 3 minutes to update & upgrade a .deb system, compared with 30 - 40 minutes with others, I've seen Debian boxes take up to 2 hours to fetch/apply updates. It all depends on how up-to-date the system was to begin with, the connection speed, how many updates are being applied, and the system hardware itself.

Ummmmmmmmmmm..........go back and read my statement. ;) I thought we were going to keep it at the home user level, but I can take several levels higher aswell.

Not to mention the level of experience the Admin doing the updates has...

I know a lot of enterprises using RedHat for DNS, DHCP, and firewalls, and the people who run them are experienced SysAdmins.

Two reply's

A firewall is not the only "real" way to protect a system, in fact a good number of high security systems run no firewall at all. I don't know where you work or work for but, most of our systems at work run without firewalls & AV. (Including most of my home and remote systems.) It's all in the config. ;)

System administrators in a well defined organization really are not paid to think, they are paid to follow procedure and to do the tasks put on their lap. I know that many SyS admins out there are not going to like that comment, but you should review the Carnigie Mellon maturity models if you don't want to take my word for it. Add in security concepts like need to know, seperation of duties, and role rotation and it really becomes clear. Don't get mad guys just read. See I used to want to be like my budd's(SyS Admins),untill I found out how many orders they take, I'm not good at taking orders, I'd rather give them, because I do themath. ;)

It doesn't have to be "difficult" to be "good."

I agree.

*edit take a look here http://daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread601.html

This forum isn't meant for arguments, so I won't post any comments about that, except that any network that doesn't have some kind of firewall or antivirus protection deserves to get owned/infected.

My days of debating with people who know little or nothing on the subject at hand are over.So I wouldn't worry about arguing with me, because it's not going to come to pass!

except that any network that doesn't have some kind of firewall or antivirus protection deserves to get owned/infected.

That statement shows your caliber in the IT field. Some books for you to read.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849311373/qid%3D1063663107/sr%3D2-3/ref%3Dsr%5F2%5F3/104-5104591-0788745

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0749440783/qid=1063663041/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-5104591-0788745?v=glance&s=books

Viruses can be defeated with proper configuration, ;) I use no anti-virus software, neither does my work and neither of us have ever had a problem. It's just a matter if dealing with process propagation and trusted resources correctly.

If your reading this thread and you have no exp in risk mgmt or any IT field keep your firewalls & AV.;) This includes mom & pop networks, ;) aswell as home users/servers.

Please keep light flaming down. Just a warning ... Thanks :)

woah there expensive books weather channell. you obviously know alot about security!! i never realised you could run a system without firewall or AV thats quite amazing. im sorry i ever doubted you about sygate now (*creep*)lol. it must have been my problem. although im still happy with ZA youre making me doubt it!!
cheers mate

just thought id update. ive decided to go for mandrake 9.2 as this seems to suit me although im gonna split my hard drive in half and install another linux OS in the near future.

This forum isn't meant for arguments, so I won't post any comments about that, except that any network that doesn't have some kind of firewall or antivirus protection deserves to get owned/infected.

My sentiments exactly. No firewall, whether software, hardware, or both is just asking for trouble. It's an open invite to anyone who can operate a hacking script. Speaking of which...If he wants his system to be tested...I suggest he leave his IP. I have plenty of friends who can put on a white hat for a day. :cheesy:

I would like to start by saying that,Some people should not mistake me for a " know it all in the UN*X forums" , I work in a highly formal environment (with significant resources) and I know that this isn't for everyone. I don't expect everyone to follow those ideals.(TKS/TheORGE) I just want people to be aware of them & not ignorantly reject them because of your level of education.
If you respond intelligently, I am not rude... but when people post things that are just so blatantly wrong, the very attempt on their part as a novice to try to argue that with me is insulting. many of my posts are downright friendly, I just have zero tolerance for uneducated people that spread misinformation. And without people like me... god imagine where we'd be then? ;) If bad information just stood as truth! Like I've seen on this board.

I am not here to be liked and I am not seeking friends, but people that know me are aware that I know my shit and that I will also give not only straight answers but high assurance documents for further reading and they find that valuable.

No firewall, whether software, hardware, or both is just asking for trouble.

Applying this to me,how do you reconcile this? Or am I misunderstanding you, and you believe that you are more knowledgable on security than the authors of those books above? that is really the only way I can see that your arguments would be logical. (Do you have any exposure to trusted systems? The argument you are making lead me to think no, and if that is the case I can provide some more reading if you are interested,after you have picked up the books above.)

Firewalls are no means an end all security solution, and frequently not needed for security at all.
However, I will take the time to correct you, "Physical Firewall" like "Hardware Firewall" are incorrect terminology, the proper term is "Dedicated Firewall" that is a system that does nothing but act as a firewall. Frequently these run on minimalistic systems with operating systems not seen beyond this niche if not specifically created for it.

Basically all firewalls are software. (with the possible exception of some very
targeted/research projects, we wont get into that)
Again a firewall is not the only "real" way to protect a system, in fact a good number of high security systems run no firewall at all. Heck, all my systems run without firewalls, like I said above it's all in the config. But you probably think extra firewalls means extra security.

It's an open invite to anyone who can operate a hacking script. Speaking of which...If he wants his system to be tested...I suggest he leave his IP. I have plenty of friends who can put on a white hat for a day.

Look, the last thing I need is some skiddi3 trying to explain how he & his skiddie friends are going to attempt an attack(correct terminology ;) ) on my TOS.............let me provide more reading material so you can comsume the terminology & apply it next time!..................................After having a bit of drama at my work resulting in way too many email memos being sent and a project being delayed over a misunderstanding of a security related term I decided to hunt
down a copy of RFC2828, which one of the parties in question had neverseen.
Having done this it also occured to me how many debates here and other forums are over simple semantics... and since I happend to have it on hand now...This document is the Internet Security Glossary and is really the closest thing to an offical IS security disctionary.
attached below.

But if your going to run a firewall because you don't know how to configure properly.
http://www.fwtk.org/
It's free, it will do what you need it to. You can filter by ports,content,typing,
protocols, whatever. heck you can even interface it with various modules floating around that actually look at content content... as in: 'what is the jpeg is of?', or 'what is the document is about?'

More reading, http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/library/rainbow/index.html
Heck I'll just post all of my personal bookmarks maybe both of you will learn somthing. I have selected my IS related ones and have pasted them below for both of you.
Organizations:
http://www.acm.org/ (Association of Computing Machinery)
http://www.ieee.org/ (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers)
http://www.bcs.org.uk/ (British Computer Society)
http://www.acs.org.au/ (Australian Computer Society)
Certifications:
http://www.isaca.org/ (CISA/CISM ceritifications)
http://www.isc2.org/ (CISSP certitification)
Standards:
http://csrc.nist.gov/ (The Computer Security Resource Center at the National Institute of Standards and Technology)
http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/ (Trusted Product Evaluation Program + Network Rating Model)
http://www.commoncriteria.org/ (The Common Criteria/ISO 15408)
http://www.iso17799.net/ (ISO17799/BS7799 + BS15000-1, BS7858, and BS8220)
http://babysealkiller.cannabisinfo.org/BS7799/ (BS7799 overview)
http://www.comp.mq.edu.au/units/ite.../RiskManage.pdf (AS/NZS4360 overview)
http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html (DOD specifications and standards)
http://www.dsp.dla.mil/ (Defense Standardizations Program)
http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Programs/MilSpec/ (MIL specifications and drawings)
http://www.kolacki.com/standards_status.htm (Status of IEEE, ISO, ANSI, and SAE standards w/ SPAWAR, FAA, ILI. IHS, & DOD links)
Education:
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/cmm/ (Capability Maturity Models)
http://www.cs.tcd.ie/courses/baict/...t11/Coursework/ (Trinity Advanced Computer Security coursework)
http://seclab.cs.ucdavis.edu/ (UC Davis Computer Security Lab)
Vendor Security:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/ (Microsoft security)
http://www-3.ibm.com/security/ (IBM security)
www.hp.com/security/ (HP security)
Security Vendors:
http://www.argus-systems.com/ (Argus Systems/Pitbull systems)
http://www.bodacion.com/ (Bodacion Technologies/HYDRA systems)
http://www.eeye.com/ (eEye Digital Security)

Not too bad, but here's some you left out:

http://www.sans.org/ (Computer Security Education and Information Security Training)
http://www.gocsi.com/ (Computer Security Institute)
http://www.cert.org/ (CERT Coordination Center)
http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/index.html (U.S. DOE-CIAC)
http://www.isecom.org/ (The Institute for Security and Open Methodologies)
http://packetstorm.linuxsecurity.com/ (PacketStorm)
http://www.immunix.com (Immunix Host Intrusion Prevention)
http://www.dshield.org/ (DShield - Distributed Intrusion Detection System)
http://www.cotse.com/ (Church of the Swimming Elephant)

...I had most of the others already...

As I stated before, this forum isn't for arguments or settling personal disputes. This forum is for helping people by answering their questions.

The average user here isn't a Security specialist, so in their environment, a firewall and some flavor of virus protection would be needed, unless you're going to volunteer your services to implement your recommendations in their infrastructure.

The original topic of this thread was regarding Knoppix - NOT Security. I suggest we get back on track, or close the discussion. Feel free to discuss your recommendations for security-related issues in either a new thread or a different area of the forum.

WeatherChannel, please avoid posting comments about other forum members. Thank you.

Hey everyone.

Going along with the Knoppix or else...I'd like to offer you a chance for a good distro that could be associated with the "or else" of your statement. I've recently tried a bunch of new distros and havn't been able to find one that sits where I want it to as far as applications/tools/configurability/power retention. I thought Debian would be the best way to go...so I looked for live CD's based off of debian with an optional hard disk install.

I found it...MEPIS Linux. By far the best distribution I have found. While it isn't extremely pretty yet (it's only a year old) it detects darn near everything you have immediately on boot up. It detected my mother-in-laws USB CDRW!!! That's a first for my linux experience. Great thing about MEPIS is that it is a live CD and you can try it out...configure it...and THEN install it after it is configured. It uses debian repositories for packages so you can apt-get your little heart out! The control panel features rawk...I could go on and on. And all of this coming from a die hard slackware user. Of course, I've been looking for something that could do office work on the linux side for a while and this distro is robust enough for me to keep it!

I slapped it onto an emachines T1090 and added it to my LAN. I liked it so much, I made a banner for it and put it onto my site.

http://www.tksbox.net/products

anyway...try this distro out. It is fantastic...and remember, this thing is only a year old. Imagine what the next release will be like.

cool but you do realise that knoppix once installel (which you can and i have install from the live cd) is essentially debian once installed. and has a powerful hardware detector the only thing i had trouble with was my onboard sound which took about 20 secs to fix!!! but thanks for giving people variety :) :)

It's an open invite to anyone who can operate a hacking script. Speaking of which...If he wants his system to be tested...I suggest he leave his IP. I have plenty of friends who can put on a white hat for a day.

Ok... I'll setup AITOS6 server.
I will run every service under the sun that you want of any version and configuration of your choice. I'll give you the SA, SO, and ISSO passwords (System Administrator, System Operator, Information Systems Security Operator what root gets broken up into) in fact I'll give you all the passwords for every account on the system. I'll install any trojans you want.Since you boys insist on firewalls ;) , I will run no firewall or any third party protection software.
Could I be a worse admin than this? What is your server going to be?
You can lock the system down as much as you like but you must run at least one standard service. (ftp, rpc, http, ssh, https, sql, smtp, etc) in as locked down but functional state as you wish.You can have as many people help you as you want.

OR.........I can rig up another test server if that one proves to advance for you skiddies. ;)

Again regarding other people pls, don't spin, your getting me banned over here!

Edit***** I apologize drummer boy if this thread took another direction, but bb's are not finite. Here is a more advanced link to your live distros. http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

drummerboy i dont know if you have installed knoppix yet as i jst skimmed thru most of the posts :o but as long as you keep your mind open to linux try all the distros you can till you find the one that you like best. there are so many to choose from you mite as well find one that works best for you :)

I would like to start by saying that,Some people should not mistake me for a " know it all in the UN*X forums" , I work in a highly formal environment (with significant resources) and I know that this isn't for everyone. I don't expect everyone to follow those ideals.(TKS/TheORGE) I just want people to be aware of them & not ignorantly reject them because of your level of education.
If you respond intelligently, I am not rude... but when people post things that are just so blatantly wrong, the very attempt on their part as a novice to try to argue that with me is insulting. many of my posts are downright friendly, I just have zero tolerance for uneducated people that spread misinformation. And without people like me... god imagine where we'd be then? ;) If bad information just stood as truth! Like I've seen on this board.

I am not here to be liked and I am not seeking friends, but people that know me are aware that I know my shit and that I will also give not only straight answers but high assurance documents for further reading and they find that valuable.
Applying this to me,how do you reconcile this? Or am I misunderstanding you, and you believe that you are more knowledgable on security than the authors of those books above? that is really the only way I can see that your arguments would be logical. (Do you have any exposure to trusted systems? The argument you are making lead me to think no, and if that is the case I can provide some more reading if you are interested,after you have picked up the books above.)

Firewalls are no means an end all security solution, and frequently not needed for security at all.
However, I will take the time to correct you, "Physical Firewall" like "Hardware Firewall" are incorrect terminology, the proper term is "Dedicated Firewall" that is a system that does nothing but act as a firewall. Frequently these run on minimalistic systems with operating systems not seen beyond this niche if not specifically created for it.

Basically all firewalls are software. (with the possible exception of some very
targeted/research projects, we wont get into that)
Again a firewall is not the only "real" way to protect a system, in fact a good number of high security systems run no firewall at all. Heck, all my systems run without firewalls, like I said above it's all in the config. But you probably think extra firewalls means extra security.
Look, the last thing I need is some skiddi3 trying to explain how he & his skiddie friends are going to attempt an attack(correct terminology ;) ) on my TOS.............let me provide more reading material so you can comsume the terminology & apply it next time!..................................After having a bit of drama at my work resulting in way too many email memos being sent and a project being delayed over a misunderstanding of a security related term I decided to hunt
down a copy of RFC2828, which one of the parties in question had neverseen.
Having done this it also occured to me how many debates here and other forums are over simple semantics... and since I happend to have it on hand now...This document is the Internet Security Glossary and is really the closest thing to an offical IS security disctionary.
attached below.

But if your going to run a firewall because you don't know how to configure properly.
http://www.fwtk.org/
It's free, it will do what you need it to. You can filter by ports,content,typing,
protocols, whatever. heck you can even interface it with various modules floating around that actually look at content content... as in: 'what is the jpeg is of?', or 'what is the document is about?'

More reading, http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/library/rainbow/index.html
Heck I'll just post all of my personal bookmarks maybe both of you will learn somthing. I have selected my IS related ones and have pasted them below for both of you.
Organizations:
http://www.acm.org/ (Association of Computing Machinery)
http://www.ieee.org/ (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers)
http://www.bcs.org.uk/ (British Computer Society)
http://www.acs.org.au/ (Australian Computer Society)
Certifications:
http://www.isaca.org/ (CISA/CISM ceritifications)
http://www.isc2.org/ (CISSP certitification)
Standards:
http://csrc.nist.gov/ (The Computer Security Resource Center at the National Institute of Standards and Technology)
http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/ (Trusted Product Evaluation Program + Network Rating Model)
http://www.commoncriteria.org/ (The Common Criteria/ISO 15408)
http://www.iso17799.net/ (ISO17799/BS7799 + BS15000-1, BS7858, and BS8220)
http://babysealkiller.cannabisinfo.org/BS7799/ (BS7799 overview)
http://www.comp.mq.edu.au/units/ite.../RiskManage.pdf (AS/NZS4360 overview)
http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html (DOD specifications and standards)
http://www.dsp.dla.mil/ (Defense Standardizations Program)
http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Programs/MilSpec/ (MIL specifications and drawings)
http://www.kolacki.com/standards_status.htm (Status of IEEE, ISO, ANSI, and SAE standards w/ SPAWAR, FAA, ILI. IHS, & DOD links)
Education:
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/cmm/ (Capability Maturity Models)
http://www.cs.tcd.ie/courses/baict/...t11/Coursework/ (Trinity Advanced Computer Security coursework)
http://seclab.cs.ucdavis.edu/ (UC Davis Computer Security Lab)
Vendor Security:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/ (Microsoft security)
http://www-3.ibm.com/security/ (IBM security)
www.hp.com/security/ (HP security)
Security Vendors:
http://www.argus-systems.com/ (Argus Systems/Pitbull systems)
http://www.bodacion.com/ (Bodacion Technologies/HYDRA systems)
http://www.eeye.com/ (eEye Digital Security)

Just an update on a couple of these links:
http://www.iso17799.net/ is changing URLs to the mother site: http://www.standardsdirect.org/iso17799.htm

Also, the ISO 17799 User Group is now at:
http://www.17799.com

I hope this helps.


Sara
:)