Windows 8 launch: three year user backlash predicted - Page 2

[caperjack]

but too many actions pop you out of the desktop and back to Metro

shouldn't if you choose all the non win8 App programs to be you default. I have done this and don't get redirected to the win8 app

[Reverend Jim]

If that is something you have to do on a per app basis then this is a brain dead approach. I believe that when you install certain flavours of Linux you get to choose your desktop environment. You should be allowed to pick your default desktop (Metro or classic) when you install Windows (or after you install).

[Wil 0' Wisp]

Microsoft have been chasing Apple/Mac ever since the early days of the GEM desktop (circa 1997 and before?) as far as I am aware. The one thing that Apple do is keep almost an consistent 'feel' to their desktop unlike Microsoft. If you experinced windows 2, 3,3.11 NT3.5 they were consistent the ''reach for the 'what where did that go' happening'' started at Win 95 and has been a changing ever since. Apologies DOS was very consistent ;-) any colour you like provided it was black/white. About time they learn't something from Macapple. Just checked it got it wrong GEM was developed by Digital Research for use with the CP/M operating system on the Intel 8088 and Motorola 68000 microprocessors (read MACAPPLE) Looks a lot like UNIX as seen from a 12 year old copy of SCo Unix...... AH read on.. Apple Computer sued DRI in what would turn into a long dispute over the "look and feel" of the GEM/1 system, which was an almost direct copy of the Macintosh (with some elements bearing a closer resemblance to those in the earlier Lisa, available since January 1983). This eventually led to DRI being forced to change several basic features of the system. Apple would later go on to sue other companies for similar issues, including their copyright lawsuit against Microsoft and HP. (Quoted from Wiki suspect but basically true?)

Windows 8 well that just a stab in the general direction of testing your customers loyalty to the nth degree. Except that since you have all this software we have supplied which is defacto standard for every one, tough luck. The rise of the tablet what ever it takes, is a sea change away from Microsoft/Apple domination (untill they buy up the companies....cynical!).

[BigPaw]

The Xerox 8010 Windows environment was out before Apple's offering.

But, it would be a very blinkered discussion if we only looked at who did what first. Who did it well? Microsoft, although being accused of monopolising, etc, actually provided a platform for a whole plethora of applications, games, and peripherals of all kinds. By this Microsoft opened up a great deal of choice to the end-user, I don't know how or why someone would say anything to the Contrary.

Apple has copied Microsoft by moving to Intel based architecture. Though sounds incredulous doesn't it? What they've done is abandoned what made them unique and advanced technologically, just to become another 'Linux' with monstrously less choice, in an effort to grab a piece of a market trend.

[Ancient Dragon]

windows 8 is still almost unusable for me.

Update: This is no longer true. I called a Microsoft tech support, the technician took remote control of my computer, and fixed the problem. The problem was incompatible 3d party software that I had installed, not Windows 8. Everything is working ok now.

[caperjack]

what 3rd party software ,

[Reverend Jim]

This article by Harry McCracken is worth a look.

[BigPaw]

I suppose he had to write something... It's easy to listen to one opinion that says, "The potato could have been boiled and mashed, chipped and fried, baked as a Jacket Potato, so why did he choose to roast it?" The writer seems to try to err on the side of caution.

Just wait until one of those squares is one of your apps auto-updating and looking rather swish. Or, there's a Daniweb square with live updates on the hottest ticks, eh? :D

Practically everything you were used to is still only one or two clicks away. Microsoft has often been accused of being behind the times, getting to the party late. Just consider Microsoft's original view of the Internet before they bought Spry Mosaic? But now they are going to be a driving force behind the reinvigoration of the hardware market, and they are rejuvenating the imaginations of developers by giving them an additional arena to play in.

I'm not a sentimentalist, I don't follow the half glass full/empty emotionalisms. It's not what I see in the glass, but look outside the glass, what is happening to the glass? Is the glass being filled, or is it being emptied? That's what is significant. Microsoft is filling the market with what people are interested in - tablet software and tablets.

Good times ahead! :)

[Reverend Jim]

But now they are going to be a driving force behind the reinvigoration of the hardware market

Well, they were a driving force in years past by writing software (like Aero which added little in the way of additional functionality) that required faster and faster systems in order to be halfway usable forcing users to unnecessarily upgrade their hardware. Now they are scaling back because Aero is such a battery killer.

[gvlral]

It's the old story, "Different strokes for different folks". Some people will think I am nuts and I don't mind that but I enjoy seeing how different packages work. I have worked my way through many different ones over the years and I'll admit that many are now sitting on the shelf gathering dust. However, over that time I have gained a feel for software in general that allows me to use most packages without using a manual. Win 8 has been the same way. I started using it back in April on an old laptop. My first suprise was that it would run on it as Win 7 wouldn't. Yes there are many things I still don't know all about it but you know what, I won't probably ever use a lot of it's bells and whistles.

[khakilang]

I hate to say this but Window seem to have the most pirated software available. Hence the popularity.

[Ancient Dragon]

That's because by definition *nix software can't be pirated, it's already free.

[caperjack]

On the HP machine I started one app then spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how to end it or get the menu back (the keyboard was not available). I finally gave up and walked away

that because windows computer are learning tools .lol

[Reverend Jim]

I learned that "Window dressing" is not enough to make a great product. The end users have to be considered first. Does anyone recall the "Not Invented Here" web cartoon where Desmond is pleased with his intuitively obvious pick of CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-F3 for a critical user function?

[ReneLeB]

The problem I have with W8 is that it forces a touch screen interface on me whether I want it or not, and I have to jump through hoops to get back to the MUCH MORE CONVENIENT keyboard and mouse interface. I HATE touch screen interfaces, and not simply because my screen gets gummed up with finger prints.

For free, I got a brandnew MEDION PC last week, equipped with a Windows 8/64. I figured I could use it to check my Webdesign-Work on IE10, so, I decided to power up the machine and invest some time in it. A waist of energy, eventually, I could not even find a screen button to shut the thing off, after NOT beeing impressed, not even about the Performance, produced by the Athlon64 4core 1.7GHz 4GB RAM USB3 Board.

If this is the future, I'll buy a couple more XP-driven Boards, for the next 20 Years or so. And install a second local network, not connected to the web. As soon as MS stops updating XP..., I am to old for this. beeing around MS since the beginning, I expected them not to 'ignore' and 'handle' it's old Customers in such a way. Shame on You Microsoft!

[Ancient Dragon]

Everything that you see in XP is also in Windows 8, they are just probably in different places. Once you figure out where everything is at Windows 8 isn't too bad, not too good either. Although I have a touch-screen PC (all in one pc) I still use it like a non-touch screen. One thing I don't like about Windows 8 is how to shut down a running program. Windows 7 and earlier there is an X button in the upper-right corner, that doesn't exist in Windows 8. You have to drag it from the top of the monitor to off the bottom. Very inconvenient.

Beeing in a 'monopolistic' Position, the MS Way of doing things set's the Desktop PC 'Standard'.

The american Auto Industry used to think similar, decades ago. By the End, American Cars have nearly disappeared from most World's Country Roads, more, US Car Manufacturers needed Tax Payer Support to barely survife.

Looking at Win 8, History seems to repeat itself. Samsung or another of the Big Ones may realize the huge Potential, and act accordingly. Hundreds of Millions of Office Desktop PC's are used daily, as worktool, not as Playstation. Billions of Users make their daily Bread by using familiar Desktops, Office Tools, e.t.c. - now, most are unable even to find the shutdown-button anymore..., after giving up, trying to understand, like me!

Microsoft should very soon 'understand' this, and act acccordingly, before someone else starts up to fill the 'sudden' gap. Or then, Commercial Users will stay with existing Platforms in order to avoid costly employee- training for a System, unknown of beeing usable for more than just a short period anyway...

Win 8 could, to the end, have been a very costly Experiment...

[Ketsuekiame]

I've been running Windows 8 for a while now and I have to say that for me, Metro is pointless. It seems the decision for Metro being the default "desktop" is because is massively improves start up time.

The next time you load Windows up, leave it a moment to do its normal "loading", then hit the desktop icon. Everything will start loading as your normal desktop would (from the point you clicked on it, not when your machine reached the metro page). By deferring this stage, they can claim exaggerated start-up times. So it seems normal Desktop mode may actually be an app that runs on Metro...

Performance wise Windows 8 is absolutely amazing. I've had people tell me it's slower than Windows 7 and show me numbers, which I'm inclined to believe are correct (millisconds out). However, the OS feels so quick and snappy you don't notice it. This is a vast improvement from XP and a good improvement from Windows 7.

Taking a look at the resources used in TaskManager, Windows 8 is extremely light-weight. This may be in part due to the model that Microsoft seems to want to take with their metro apps. It's possible that a close button isn't available because you're simply supposed to "Home" it, like on the iPhone.

For those that miss the original start menu, Pokki offer a free alternative that is Windows 8 styled. It's very sleek and quick.

Finally, I have had no problems with Windows 8 that were not self-inflicted.

1. Bluescreen of Death. The new bluescreens are a little bit more helpful, but not much. Every single bluescreen I've had was caused by overclocking the graphics card and forgetting to increase the voltage.
2. Slow networking. My motherboard comes with advanced Windows 8 traffic management settings. I disabled the bundled motherboard software and back up to full gigabit speed :)
3. Slow booting. Overclocking failure. Although the processor tested stable, it wasn't. It seems a lot of operations to retrieve from memory brought back "bad" data and had to do the operation again.

[caperjack]

for me it took a few days and a bit of googling everytime i needed someting from 8 that was different than how i got it from xp,7, vista ect ect ,just use basic windows knowledge for the useuall stuff and google for help on therest , oh yeah ALT+F4 will bring up the shutdows box ,mose over the 4 cornes ,use the lower left corner when the start button comes up when you mouse over ,right click for shortcuts to most erverything i use on a daily bases ,and for software i use daily i have pined to the desktop toolbar.
for the most part i don't even realise im using win8 and not win7

[Reverend Jim]

You have to drag it from the top of the monitor to off the bottom. Very inconvenient.

Doesn't Alt-F4 work anymore? I presume you are talking about the Metro apps because I still see the X in the upper right corner of my desktop apps.

So it seems normal Desktop mode may actually be an app that runs on Metro...

It's been that way for some time now. The desktop you are used to is actually explorer.exe running. Try this - using Windows XP or Windows 7, bring up task manager then kill explorer.exe. Your desktop will go away. If it doesn't restart within a few seconds just start explorer.exe using the task manager menu. Your desktop will reappear.

[Ketsuekiame]

I find this hard to explain because I can only refer to it as the desktop, however, I don't mean the shell that runs on the desktop (explorer.exe would be the shell) but I mean the entire....thing. This move means that the original shell host is now an app that runs under metro. This in turn hosts the explorer shell.

My explanation is probably extrememly poor, sorry.

[Corene]

You said it all. Well done.

[Ancient Dragon]

Doesn't Alt-F4 work anymore?

Yes it does, I didn't know about that hotkey.

[starfireone]

I've 6 computers that used to be a combination of Windows 7 and XP. I've upgraded them all to Windows 8 and I have to say I have not been sorry not even one day for upgrading to the latest Windows OS. Windows 8 has maded life a lot easy. I love the touch screen funcitionality. I'm just surprise that it took Microsoft this long to bring it out on to the market. Windows 8 rocks in my book. One happy camper here.

[Rik_]

Windows 8 has to switch to windows 7 mode in order to carry out most tasks. How is that a leap forward???

[caperjack]

windows 7 mode ,i assume you mean the desktop ,all versions since win95 or even win3.1[kind of] ran from the desktop,and thery were all considered advanced OS'ES

[Reverend Jim]

Even though they weren't.

[Rik_]

I help out in my local computer shop. We have had many people come in with their brand new windows 8 laptops and paid us to install windows 7 on them. An install of windows 7 with license key isn't cheap yet we get more and more each week. I sure wont be wasting my cash on windows 8.
The complaints range from "I can't get the hang of it" to "none of the programs I use work with it".

[Reverend Jim]

To clarify my "even though they weren't" statement...

Windows 3, 3.1, 95, 98, etc. weren't operating systems because they were programs (window dressing, if you will) that ran on top of the operating system, which was DOS. Windows NT, XP and later were/are operating systems. The available command shell (sometimes called a DOS window) was a command line interpreter that ran as a program from within Windows rather than as the underlying OS.