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I help out in my local computer shop. We have had many people come in with their brand new windows 8 laptops and paid us to install windows 7 on them. An install of windows 7 with license key isn't cheap yet we get more and more each week. I sure wont be wasting my cash on windows 8.
The complaints range from "I can't get the hang of it" to "none of the programs I use work with it".

The complaints range from "I can't get the hang of it" to "none of the programs I use work with it".

i do that to sometime at a local computer store,also ,haven't see any people in to get back to win7 ,but then again most of the computers they sold at Christmas stil lhad win7 on them ,but have benn fixing cpmputers for years at home and in a small shop i had in town a few years back ,and people have always used those excuses ,most are to lazy to learn or just don't have the capasity ,as for program not working ,thats allways been happining ,i recently install some old programs i had laying around ,like cool edit 2000 and it worked just fine a few othere i don't remember the names of ,most worked ,but a few installed but would not run ,so whats new .i use win8 and have appsolutly no problem with it ,but i did havbe to do a lot of searching on how to do certin things , and still do

Edited by caperjack

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For those of us who refuse to bow down to Microsoft when they say "be reasonable, do it our way" there is yet another alternative. Stardock had previously released Start8 for those of us who appreciate the functionality of the start button. Now they have released
ModernMix so that the users can decide whether or not to run the Windows 8 apps in full screen or in a window. Both apps provide functionality that should have come with Windows 8 out of the box. The sales of these two apps will indicate who was right.

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All Microsoft had to do to please everyone was to include the windows 7 start menu as an optional alternative to the start page, exactly like the 'classic menu' options of windows xp and earlier. So simple. Not doing this was arrogant and small minded, and MS are paying for it, and will continue to pay for it. Stupid and unneccessary. They could have so easily pleased nearly everyone. More of the "We're from Microsoft, and WE know what's good for you.

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The problem I see with Windows, is that they try to give everything to everyone. With this bloat, it's hard for Windows to compete on an even keel. I have never understood why the market has let Microsoft dominate the market like they have. I for one, am very happy to use Android, Appple or any thing other than Windows. I have stopped in and tried Win 8 a few times. I think they have once again tried to pack too much into one package.

Microsoft needs to quit trying to be everything to everybody, and just produce an OS that is compact, fast and easy to use. If they were to at least make an attempt at that, I just might give them a try again. I do use Windows now, but I only upgrade when I purchase new equipment. I will be buying custom built PC's from now on, so I really don't think Microsoft will be in my future much longer.

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Microsoft needs to quit trying to be everything to everybody,

so what does that mean ,really , make it so it only does office work like computers were orignally meant for ,only office work and surf a text internet, so we have no browsers with 20 different plugins to make the internet work for everyone , and be a gaminf machine for those who want to play those high end games and not just solitare

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The problem I see with Windows, is that they try to give everything to everyone.

I don't see how giving the user a choice of a default interface when they are already providing both interfaces amounts to giving everything to everyone. However, I would be quite happy to give up 80% of the "features" in MS Office that most users don't need and didn't ask for. Most features were added merely to justify the cost of a new release.

Microsoft needs to quit trying to be everything to everybody, and just produce an OS that is compact, fast and easy to use.

AmigaDOS was a fast, compact (under 720k) and easy to use. It had full multitasking, interprocess messaging (ReXX ports), and I believe is still the only OS to ever offer display of two different screen resolutions at the same time. It was designed from the ground up to be non-redundant. Microsoft, on the other hand, had several different design groups all re-inventing the wheel instead of sharing code.

What Microsoft must do is to stop changing directions every few years and dicking around its user base.

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@Reverend Jim,
I agree about how Microsoft has no direction. Well I mean every direction. They have no clue where they were, where they are or where they are going. They feel that they must produce a new look all the time. If they would work at tweaking one system to be fast and compact, they would have a winner.

Our computers keep getting faster, yet it seems microsoft's products keep hogging resources and bogging down. You get a top of the line processor and a large amount of RAM, but I am never able to make Microsoft as fast as any Linux or other open source product. They just don't get it, that's all.

@caperjack,
Office and Windows has so many drivers clogging the pipes so hardware from the 90's will still work. There are so many fonts installed, that your OS takes forever to boot. Just uninstalling fonts not used and all the old drivers can increase boot time quite a bit. I ask you, how many of the functions in Office do you really use?

What they could do now that most users have a fast internet connection, is to trim Windows and Office to only include the most popular features, fonts and drivers. Then during the install, the user could check off the features they want. The software could determine the required drivers and download them from the internet. Fonts could be downloaded on a per usage basis.

I am using the Intel i7 processor and it seems that my laptop is taking more time to boot than my old (real old) Compaq with an prehistoric Pentium. Over time my faster and faster PC's, seem to be running slower. As a what if situation, I loaded XP on my laptop with the i7 and it was pretty fast. It loads and runs faster than Win7 did on the same laptop. That to me, just isn't right. That's all I was trying to get across in my post. The beast, I mean Microsoft has to quit trying to please everyone right on the get go. They can get their software running faster, then download as needed the items missing from the systems and users that need more.

Sometimes during install in the custom mode, they ask about features and fonts. But even with a miminal install, you get so much junk that is never used. Trim that stuff from the software and it speeds up exponentially. Wouldn't that be better for the majority of their users?

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Microsoft introduced Aero with Vista. They told us we'd have to upgrade our hardware to run the new OS. Sure, you didn't need the extra horses if you weren't running Aero but they made it clear that if you didn't run Aero then you were a loser. And then to add insult to injury they labeled macines as "Vista Ready" that weren't. The point is that if you wanted all the new features to work then you needed a new machine. Then with Windows 7 they fixed most of the bottlenecks that were causing the problems with Vista. people who were concerned about battery life turned Aero off anyway. Now with Windows 8 they've gone back to minimalism. No Aero. But of course there is the other problem. If there are no drivers for the older hardware (like my Lexmark printer or Plextor TV tuner) I'll either have to stay with an older OS (XP for both of my examples) or spend more $ to replace hardware that is still working just fine.

I'm sick and tired of being jerked around time and time again.

Edited by Reverend Jim

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I'm sure my credentials don't measure up to most of yours' but here is some of what I know concerning windows 8 Pro: 1st-I am a Microsoft Partner & started my experience w/windows 8 beta. No doubt-it is different but it is not complicated.I now own a Microsoft Surface Pro and Windows Phone. Both are simple and User Friendly and work w/o any complications (so far). I'm sold on Windows 8 & not so much on Apple. Microsoft gets a lot of bad press where Apple gets none. But run a Surface against any Ipad & I'll guarantee there's no comparison. I know-I have both!

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Windows 8 is bad. I will likely buy a new laptop this fall when the warranty on my Dell (bought in 2008) expires. I hope that it comes with Windows 8. I will immediately install Start8 and ModernMix to address my two main complaints. I will also wipe the current laptop and put on Windows XP so I can interface with older hardware for which there are no Windows Vista/7/8 drivers. But I will not pay one cent extra to upgrade any of my systems to Windows 8.

And the new system will not have a touch screen. Fingerprints drive me absolutely up the wall.

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Microsoft has lost a huge amount of market share, depending upon how exactly you define computers. If you include tablets and smartphones, Microsoft has dropped to about 24% from 95% about ten years ago.

LARGEST COMPUTER MAKERS WHEN SMARTPHONES & TABLETS INCLUDED
Rank (was) . . Brand . . . . . . Units 2012 . . Market Share 2012
1 (1) . . . . . . . Apple . . . . . . 272 M . . . . . 22%
2 (2) . . . . . . . Samsung . . . 249 M . . . . . 20%
3 (6) . . . . . . . Lenovo . . . . . . 77 M . . . . . . 6%
4 (4) . . . . . . . HP . . . . . . . . 59 M . . . . . . 5%
5 (-) . . . . . . . Huawei . . . . . . 55 M . . . . . . 4%
6 (7) . . . . . . . Dell . . . . . . . . 38 M . . . . . . 3%
7 (10) . . . . . . Sony . . . . . . . 37 M . . . . . . 3%
8 (9) . . . . . . . Acer . . . . . . . 36 M . . . . . . 3%
9 (3) . . . . . . . Nokia . . . . . . . 35 M . . . . . . 3%
10 (-) . . . . . . ZTE . . . . . . . . 35 M . . . . . . 3%
. . . . . . . . . . Others . . . . . 331 M . . . . . 27%
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,224 M

Source: TomiAhonen Almanac 2013 from company and industry data, February 2013
This data and this table may be freely shared

If you want to see how that splits by type of computer, it goes like this:
Smartphones . . . . . . 695 M . . 57%
Traditional PCs . . . . 353 M . . 29%
Tablet PCs . . . . . . . 176 M . . 14%
Total Computers . . 1,224 M
Source: TomiAhonen Almanac 2013 from company and industry data, February 2013
This data and this table may be freely shared

LARGEST OPERATING SYSTEMS OF COMPUTERS WHEN SMARTPHONES & TABLETS INCLUDED
Rank . . . . . Brand . . . . . . Units 2012 . . Market Share 2012 . . Market Share 2011
1 (2) . . . . . Android . . . . . 462 M . . . . . . 38% . . . . . . . . . . . . 23%
1 (1) . . . . . Windows . . . . 296 M . . . . . . 24% . . . . . . . . . . . . 31%
3 (3) . . . . . iOS . . . . . . . . 272 M . . . . . . 22% . . . . . . . . . . . . 21%
4 (5) . . . . . Blackberry . . . . 34 M . . . . . . . 3% . . . . . . . . . . . . 6%
5 (4) . . . . . Symbian . . . . . 19 M . . . . . . . 2% . . . . . . . . . . . . 9%
. . . . . . . . . Others . . . . . . 141 M . . . . . . 12%
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,224 M

All of the data is from Tomi Ahonen's Communities Dominate Brands blog, and is based on numbers from the major tracking firms, so it is probably reasonably accurate.

Wayne

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The first table you posted isn't relevant to the market share of Microsoft because Microsoft doesn't manufacture any computers and just recently started making the Surface.

If you include tablets and smartphones, Microsoft has dropped to about 24% from 95% about ten years ago.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges -- Very few people owned tablets until Applie released the iPad in 2010.

But I will not pay one cent extra to upgrade any of my systems to Windows 8.

I upgraded one computer from Windows 7 to Windows 8. Not worth the trouble so I'm not upgrading any of my others. I bought my grandaughter a Surface awhile back and she likes it a lot, uses it in college classes since the keyboard has no sound when the keys are hit.

Edited by Ancient Dragon

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I too have been around Microsoft for years. I have an hp media center for about 5 yrs now, had a problem with it once, upgraded from xp to vista then 7. last week it wouldn't start. still don't know why. none of my restore cd's could be read. I went to a local store, explained what happened, they did not have anything but windows 8 pro on the shelf. the store clerk assured me that it would run my media center no problem, it would function just like win 7, so I bought it. After spending $200. on a new cd, I come to find out that I have to buy a separate package to run the media center. I am not a happy camper. my computer is locking up. I have no access to the media center and while I am playing a game on line my screen is suddenly nothing but colorful lines. I have to shut my computer down to get a clear screen back. I have an amd anthlon 64x2 dual core processor, 3.0 ghz with 64-bit os, 4 sticks ram(2- 512 and 2- 1024) NVidia g-force grahics, all the latest updates for drivers, my c: drive has nothing but win 8 on it, I have a second hard drive for anything I want to save ie: pictures, data...etc. any suggestions on how to retify this situation will be greatly appreciated.

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I think you can still get the media centre for free for a little while longer. Have you run a full slate of diagnostics?

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@ reverend jim, yes sir I did. I tried everything I know including trying system mechanic and my norton bootable backup, to checking for hardware malfunctions and trying to repair using the cds I have on hand from xp all the way up to windows 7. if my machine had a floppy I would have gone back to win 98, lol. I am at a total loss. so far today it has been up and running. I am going to continue looking for the media center. I went straight to hp and it is posted that I have to buy the media center separately. I am patient, i will continue to read. maybe i can teach myself programming. thanks for responding.

Edited by mariannetoy

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media center free addition is over, and if you applied for a key and haven't use it yet you are to late for that even, i do believe , i recieved a email a while back stating a deadline to use the key ,of corse i forget the date, lol

Edited by caperjack

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I've been working with Windows8 for a while now ... but I continue to use a Windows 7 machine for my productivity needs. Win8 is ok with a touchscreen, but it can be a hassle without ... and when running productivity apps, it does mean a move to a more three-dimensional approach to the GUI. I really dislike the propensity to 'bounce' out of screens, though it is a bug that should settle out.

Microsoft spent a lot of time telling us that a more 3-dimensional interface (and lets talk about Aero) were the wave of the future. Win8 is very two-dimensional.

Would Windows 8 be ok on tablet? Yes. Phone? Yes. But that, and machines that are essentially kiosks are its greatest value. Should Microsoft abandon that opportunity? I say no. It should, however, stop trying to make a desktop into a tablet...they serve different purposes.

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Microsoft spent a lot of time telling us that a more 3-dimensional interface (and lets talk about Aero) were the wave of the future. Win8 is very two-dimensional.

That was so yesterday. 2D is the future. At least until Windows 9 when MS will add the flash back in and sell it as the cool new reason to upgrade. Again.

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It was bad enough at the office with a glass screen. It's even worse with a laptop. I got so fed up with cleaning fingerprints off the display that my response now is when the perp is wearing glasses to remove their glasses.

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Occasionally, someone at the office would touch my screen. If they were wearing glasses I would wipe my thumb across the bridge of my nose then plant a disgusting greasy thumb print on their glasses. I never had to do it twice.

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My feeling on this matter is that I would never want a 'tablet' interface for my desktop. I know people say the desktop is dying, but I don't personally plan on abandoning mine in the foreseeable future. I have no problem with the interface on my desktop being different than on my tablet. And if I did want an ugly, clunky tablety interface on my desktop, I'd go back to the loving arms of Gnome 3.

Rev. Jim, I absolutely love your reaction to people touching the screen. Given that it's a pet peeve of mine too, I will have to make a habit of adopting this approach.

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. I tried everything I know including trying system mechanic and my norton bootable backup, to checking for hardware malfunctions and trying to repair using the cds I have on hand from xp all the way up to windows 7. if my machine had a floppy I would have gone back to win 98, lol. I am at a total loss. so far today it has been up and running. I am going to continue looking for the media centeI went straight to hp and it is posted that I have to buy the media center separately. I am patient, i will continue to read. maybe i can teach myself programming. thanks for responding.

Edited by happygeek: spam (fake sig) removed

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Windows brand was always seen as workstation to work. With changing to different UI, the user must learn entirely new stuff. Thanks to media, users rather stay on good known Vista, Win7 or WinXP, because it is what they are used to. Microsoft should have forseen it and provide for users two kinds of interface. One classical for workstations and second for new generation devices like tablets and touchscreen devices (laptops). Where as switch would be simple. Now companies, if must invest to upgrade, they compare the costs to move to Win8, Win7 or linux based with they already used applications. Of course they buy laptops with Win8-OEM installed, but later use other OS system like WinXP/7 or linux based. In short Microsoft came early with new Windows(8) and made it very different. Now people used to work with WinXP are getting used/know to work with Win7 and scared of Win8.

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The latest version of Windows has changed beyond all recognition, or at least it has from the Microsoft perspective. Truth be told, it's pretty old news for the tablet toting, screen swiping, design desiring, cloud-based trend setters of today. I heard Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO, talking up Windows 8 on the radio earlier today and he spoke excitedly in terms of how this is as big as the first IBM PC for example, and how Microsoft is re-imagining the world from the world up with Windows 8. Certainly it needs to be a success if Microsoft is to get a proper foothold, even at the very bottom of a very tall ladder, on the smartphone and tablet market where Apple with iOS and Google with Android rule supreme right now.

I haven't update to Window 8 yet. I talk to people and Window 8 is not bad. Regarding about smartphone and tablet. I agree with you that they have a long road to reach the level of marketing in smartphone and tablets.

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Hi
I love to use windows 8..it really makes us comfortable in working the things..
i could find many news about windows 8 thank you...

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For new Users, Windows8 may be the right choice, no question about it. The Problem is, that Millions of Companies worldwide have invested Trillions in order to get their Billions Employees trained to handle WIN2000/XP Systems.

Now, they should invest another Trillions to enable all those Peoples, many of them not even using PC's at home, to keep on understanding how to handle their Computers at work.

This is an impossible Task. It will take several Years, just to get there, where they are today by using an 'older' Windows at work. The biggest Swiss Retailer still uses 'WINDOWS NT' on thousands of machines troughout the Country. They pay huge License Fees to Microsoft to keep their 'NT' alive.

So much to this...

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Millions of Companies worldwide have invested Trillions in order to get their Billions Employees trained to handle WIN2000/XP Systems

I think your numbers may be a tad high but I agree with the premise. My old company is just now migrating to Windows 7 so a move to Windows 8.x will likely not happen at all, especially since Microsoft seems to be putting all of their effort into the "tablet experience". Stupid gits.

Edited by Reverend Jim

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