Couple problems with Vista.. Ram maxin and also *32.. Plus CMD

[BSkiLLs]

Hi everybody.

I have a couple questions all in one, not sure if all stem from the same thing or not but..

so i will ask in numbers.

Question 1:
What would make my system and services / process's run all of a sudden like crazy and like half max and also all of a sudden have *32 at the end of them like so in this screenshot. ?? (see attachment-1 ) or is that normal even on a 64bit

Now i did install a few thing, like only 3 things. Which all should be fine and compatible. Also the standard windows updates. As this is a brand new machine. Not even 5 days old. 2-3 days in use adding all my stuff back to it files and programs, but on the programs i have only installed 3 as i said.

Now during one of those. Cant remember which one, i got a pop up telling me something was switching to 32bit cause was not compatible with: windows color and appearance, transparency settings or something like that as i clicked ok to fast after it had restarted from an update after the installs and the screen flashed and went to like a different look kinda of like a 32bit or different graphic card like look to where things wasn't as transparent.

So i went to the color settings and changed it and refresh and it kinda came back to a little normal but.

Anyways so im not sure if that is also what caused the *32 to start showing up, or if it was always showing up like that as i am real tech knowledge and savy but not to use to this version of vista nor did i look at the process's and services before hand.

I did look at the process meter and ram CPU meter and had noticed it running high. Not really the CPU but the ram was pretty much even before this, as i have 4gb ram and barely anything install and it runs with nothing running at like 32-52% and mostly on the upper side of that %

Now is the *32 even suppose to be there at all by default, or is that something that could of happened during an install or windows update not going right ??

ok now for the next question

Question 2: On CMD.

How would i go head and reverse a command or change it back to the way it was ?? (besides and system restore or reformat). Which i'm probably doing anyways already but for other reasons including this. Even though i would still like to know.

Let me explain a little better. As i had to re-register a couple dll's for a install to work. Also if i might of typed it wrong , or missed a path section (so to speak)

So for an example:

running

cd ..\SysWow64

then

regsvr32 jscript.dll

[enter]

regsvr32 vbscript.dll

[enter]

But now what if i didnt type the cd..\
and also/or if i typed the dll's wrong (even tho they both said installed/registered fine) but what if i did them twice each ??

and as the top question. How would i go about undoing this, or un-registering them. So maybe i can start over and/or see if that was what is causing the other issue with the *32 (even tho that's not what i think it is from. I think its from the other 1st issue stated above).

Even tho the CMD prompt seemed to work ok, well besides the fact, now my Ram is running even higher then listed above and on a sightly more of a bases now. Which i'm not sure if the 2 have anything to do with that or not. If it is the CMD i did that's cause it or the other i spoke of above.

I did the two things for different reasons so to speak. The top because i had to of the error. But then the CMD i did so i could install Photoshop CS3 as the install package isn't set up to install on 64bit, even though the program is.

and now to the last question:

3: Why wouldn't service pack 2 be coming up on my auto updates yet, if it's already out and tons of users / machines using it ???

and would that help with my Ram and or anything else, as im of course running SP1 and as i said with a brand new computer just built 2 weeks ago. I just happen to read that it was out and that on windows vistas site and forum help, there was a Download/install link. That's what i dont get about it and why if that is so, why it hasnt come through my updates yet, or if why they are not releasing it through the auto updates yet.???

So sorry if this is a little confusing and long but kinda hard to explain what i mean. I hope this makes since and somebody could help.

Just to clarify a little bit. Theirs basically 3 questions in total above. lol. I hope it is clear enough to notice..lol.

Thanks in advance.

[Suspishio]

I'll try to answer your questions!

1/
Anything with *32 is running as a 32 bit process in x86 mode. Nothing to worry about. It's correctly reported and I have this on my 64 bit XP system.

2/
To unregister a DLL use the /U paramater as at:
http://www.xp-vista.com/other/how-to-unregister-dll-files

You don't have to run CMD. You can do all this from START/RUN and then type your Regsvr32 command.

3/
The RAM usage point (dunno about SP2). Vista takes up slack RAM by loading in its DLLs etc on a usage/popularity basis. These are heaved out when there is any other demand on RAM. So bery little RAM is ever reported as free.

[kaninelupus]

I can see a couple of things straight off the bat, although would be quite handy to have a FULL running processes list (make sure you choose to display processes from all users) to go over everything.

Now the *32 prefix is normal as mentioned. What Suspishio didn't mention is that the more 32-bit apps you run on x64, the more it will weigh things down, due to the burden of virtualisation.

Now, for starters, Explorer is running WAY too hot. I'd be using this little utility to find out exactly what is tapping into it to push the memory usage so damn high... will also be useful in chasing up processes.

Now in typical HP fashion, they've thrown in everything but the kitchen sink, and set it all to run at start-up! I'd recommend going through the HP-crapware and uninstalling what you don't need, and then using MSConfig (can be opened by typing in msconfig in the Run window.)

For starters, I highly doubt you need HP Remote Software, which is a remote collaboration application. HP Advisor is also another killer. Turn off HP's Update Advisor (listed as hpwuSchd2.exe) - you can always check for updates at any time directly from their site; also don't need hpsysdrv.exe

LWS.exe, which I'm alost certain is Logitech's webcam software, can be removed from start-up... will auto load when you actually open the webcam software. Remove apps like Messenger, Acrobat, Quicktime from startup... all will load quite fine when you actually need them.

Do you have a Touch-Screen?? If you don't, then you can uninstall the touch-screen support application which is also running in the background there.

Finally, given HP's abysmal record of keeping hardware drivers up to date, open up Device Manager from the control panel, and use that to check with the actual manufacturer's that you have the latest drivers, as this should also give the best performance.

Can't give you an answer on SP2, as have been busy with Win7 and not booted up in Vista for weeks. From what I hear though, can be manually DL'ed and installed anyhow.

[Suspishio]

Now the *32 prefix is normal as mentioned. What Suspishio didn't mention is that the more 32-bit apps you run on x64, the more it will weigh things down, due to the burden of virtualisation.

I don't often disagree with kaninelupus but this one's an exception and I'm happy to be proved wrong.

I don't think there is a weighty burden of virtualisation to worry about. There is an envolope that adds RAM usage for 32 bit registers and the like and although that can all add up, dormant VMs are heaved out by Windows just like 64 bit procedess. That includes loaded DLLs and so on. Whatever's running when you want it to run gets the memory it needs by having Windows rolling out what it doesn't want.

I can see where kaninelupus would be correct; this is where you have a number of concurrent applications. He would be right if those concurrent applications called on a large variety of 32 bit processes so forcing lots of roll-out/roll-in activity. The answer then would be to go to 8GB from 4GB.
----------------------------------------------------
On the Explorer front, does it show the same RAM usage if you close & reload it?

[kaninelupus]

I don't often disagree with kaninelupus but this one's an exception and I'm happy to be proved wrong.

I don't think there is a weighty burden of virtualisation to worry about. There is an envolope that adds RAM usage for 32 bit registers and the like and although that can all add up, dormant VMs are heaved out by Windows just like 64 bit procedess. That includes loaded DLLs and so on. Whatever's running when you want it to run gets the memory it needs by having Windows rolling out what it doesn't want.

It all sounds nice in theory, but in running benchmark comparisons, the reality is than 9 times out of 10, the x86 does run much heavier, and for two reasons.

Virtualisation does increase workload, simply because it adds yet another process for the x86 app to be able to run. When you consider that many base utilities at his point (Intel's Turbo Memory Manager a point in case) are x64 drivers still being managed by x86 utilities/applications, you see more performance drainage.

Also, x64 apps tend to actually be optimised for the x64 operating environment (such as optimised memory usage, CPU usage), where-as the x86 app is not.

Couple of interesting comparisons (I only have a couple of cases where both x86 and x64 app builds are both installed at present).

Photoshop CS4
x64 and x86 comparisons, loading the exact same image.

x64 - 86,136K
x86 - 91,084K

WMP12
WMP12, playing BluRay ripped MP4

x86 sitting around 88,000K
x64 sitting around 62,000K

Sidebar - running two gadgets

x64 6,292
x86 8,320

What will be interesting is to see just how big the difference in performance and memory usage when Adobe fianlly releases FlashPlayer x64, so browsers (which can be BIG resources users) can make the switch-over as well

EDIT - just realised I forgot to add link for Process Explorer to find out why Explorer is running hot

[Suspishio]

It all sounds nice in theory, but in running benchmark comparisons, the reality is that 9 times out of 10, the x86 does run much heavier, and for two reasons.

Virtualisation does increase workload, simply because it adds yet another process for the x86 app to be able to run. When you consider that many base utilities at his point (Intel's Turbo Memory Manager a point in case) are x64 drivers still being managed by x86 utilities/applications, you see more performance drainage.

I think that kaninelupus has mixed his messages here. I'm addressing the main thrust of his initial contribution: RAM usage. In his latest post, kaninelupus talks about "running heavier" and "performance drainage". He then illustrates this with memory usage comparisons.

Memory usage comparisons show static positions - not "performance drainage". As I said in my earlier post, idle stuff gets heaved out if there is insufficient physical RAM to hold everything in RAM, leaving the target application to run at normal performance.

Undoubtedly the 32 bit VM has a performance cost in terms of CPU usage; but that is small and won't be noticed except in the relatively uncommon circumstances where concurrent applications are running in a small RAM environment.

Finally, kaninelupus says "Virtualisation does increase workload, simply because it adds yet another process for the x86 app to be able to run". The x86 application is a VM that stands alone for each running instance. I'm not aware of any limiting resource in terms of the x86 VM itself - but I haven't studied this; though it wouldn't be a VM if the x86 app had a stranglepoint affecting all instances.

Anyway, between us we've answered BSkiLLs' questions and perhaps he could mark this thread as SOLVED.

[BSkiLLs]

I'll try to answer your questions!

1/
Anything with *32 is running as a 32 bit process in x86 mode. Nothing to worry about. It's correctly reported and I have this on my 64 bit XP system.

2/
To unregister a DLL use the /U paramater as at:
http://www.xp-vista.com/other/how-to-unregister-dll-files

You don't have to run CMD. You can do all this from START/RUN and then type your Regsvr32 command.

3/
The RAM usage point (dunno about SP2). Vista takes up slack RAM by loading in its DLLs etc on a usage/popularity basis. These are heaved out when there is any other demand on RAM. So bery little RAM is ever reported as free.

Well, im not sure about that with the *32 as some seems like it should be OK maybe, but not really. Not on a 64bit with the PC stats like this one, nor the reason how they ( alot of them) just started showing like that after i installed like 3 things, and had a couple issue's on one when it popped up telling me a few things. Even tho it did install at the end pretty much it seemed ok and ran ok, but then noticed this but...

Also yes, i know you can do it through the run command or run box. Thxs though.

I just happen to do it through CMD. On the unregistering, i actually thought about it and how after i posted this, plus did some searches at first and didnt find anything good and on point. I was pretty tired tho, plus was thinking there might of been a different command since it was vista 64bit, then what im use to.

Thanks for the feed back . :)

[BSkiLLs]

I can see a couple of things straight off the bat, although would be quite handy to have a FULL running processes list (make sure you choose to display processes from all users) to go over everything.

Now the *32 prefix is normal as mentioned. What Suspishio didn't mention is that the more 32-bit apps you run on x64, the more it will weigh things down, due to the burden of virtualisation.

Now, for starters, Explorer is running WAY too hot. I'd be using this little utility to find out exactly what is tapping into it to push the memory usage so damn high... will also be useful in chasing up processes.

Now in typical HP fashion, they've thrown in everything but the kitchen sink, and set it all to run at start-up! I'd recommend going through the HP-crapware and uninstalling what you don't need, and then using MSConfig (can be opened by typing in msconfig in the Run window.)

For starters, I highly doubt you need HP Remote Software, which is a remote collaboration application. HP Advisor is also another killer. Turn off HP's Update Advisor (listed as hpwuSchd2.exe) - you can always check for updates at any time directly from their site; also don't need hpsysdrv.exe

LWS.exe, which I'm alost certain is Logitech's webcam software, can be removed from start-up... will auto load when you actually open the webcam software. Remove apps like Messenger, Acrobat, Quicktime from startup... all will load quite fine when you actually need them.

Do you have a Touch-Screen?? If you don't, then you can uninstall the touch-screen support application which is also running in the background there.

Finally, given HP's abysmal record of keeping hardware drivers up to date, open up Device Manager from the control panel, and use that to check with the actual manufacturer's that you have the latest drivers, as this should also give the best performance.

Can't give you an answer on SP2, as have been busy with Win7 and not booted up in Vista for weeks. From what I hear though, can be manually DL'ed and installed anyhow.

Thanks for the feed back.

Yeah i do normally close and do not have most them apply and start-up on start up. Yes that one is Logitechs. Good thinking. Also planning on ditching the adviser of course and actually most others as i always do. Actually i only have 3 things start up on start-up that are outside 3rd party software.

Now on the *32 bit. That's whats weird is im not running or have set anything to run on a 32bit apps platform so to speak.

At the time of that image example, i was only running and had installed:

MS Office 2007 pro
Logitechs webcam
Pspad
Filezilla
Norton 09 suite
A FLV player. (real light weight & 64bit ver)
Photoshop CS3 (which wasn't fully installed or running yet) Has that is the last one i ran the install.. and then noticed this after i restarted.

Well actually noticed it before a little bit also with my whole issue here but...

After i ran those commands, is when i really started to pay attention and tried to trace down what was cause or doing this to run so high or bit. Now on the explore .exe That might have been cause i was coping backed up files over to my files here on this PC as its a brand new PC, not even 5 days old at this that time. But i cant remember so not sure on that one.

but anyways, yeah thats what got me thinking about it even more cause i had to enter those commands to run Photoshop as it is a 64bit program and compatible but.. Not the install file itself, so have to run those and re-register those dll's to install the app.

Then i looked again at my Task Manager and noticed it running if not the same, but maybe a little worse with a few more *32's running like in the example pic.

Well anyways so im not sure whats cause it, but i do know that whatever it was that one time and install afterwords popped up and told me program was compatible with the 64bit transparency of the appearance setting windows (whatever they call it ) Aero or something... but.

That's when i started noticing it cause it said "it" had to run in a 32bit. Which i figured OK, no prob. As it was only that one.. and if i remember correctly wasn't nothing special or an important app i use really all the time but.. so i figured OK, but then that's when i noticed it seemed a lot of the others changed or started running in *32 also and more of those showed up in the Task Manager.. That's when i said ok now, and searched around for a reason or answer then posted this.

____________________

Well since then, i just went a head and did a reformat, and re-copied over my data files from backup, and only installed 3 things so far, basic that i know runs on 64 and is a 64 version app but.. Plus to keep a closer eye this time as i go through my list of apps i need to install back, also creating a restore point inbetween a couple of them just for extra caution incase but mainly to see how it goes this time and if everything runs and installs ok this time. If not be able to trace it down to what it was, if it does it again, or actually be able to restore right when it happens.. to kinda trace down what it may be. If it does happen.

Then figure it out or what im going to have to do at that point i guess..

oohh and i did do a main update this time for windows ,system, drivers and everything like i normally do all at one time as sooin as i restore, or open a brand new computer. I just forgot to do it the first time i opened this one, and i let this one run them auto and slowly one at a time as they came, but normally and this time i do them all at once and the first thing i do before installing anything. That way everything is up to date first and safe, etc etc..

Well. Thanks again so far for the help and feed back.

Any other ideas or help, or thought, or what it may have been to cause this starting to do that.. please let me know.

I will also keep this and you guys up dated as i go here in the next couple hours and days installing all my apps back and what happens or how it runs or if it happens again and all these *32's start running again.

As im about to start right now installing most my apps back right now and until im done or have time. Got quite a few to install back between now and the next couple days..
so i guess we shall see........

Also just with what i have installed now which is barely nothing. Only personal data files, browser firefox, flv player, firefox extensions, and MSN essentials. ( live messanger/photo gallery), and filezilla.

I'm going to check and take a pic and a txt list of my process's now before i do my installs. Maybe post it also if needed or for the heck of it. and of course tom compare on my own as i go.

Thxs again, and as i said, i guess we shall see this time.

[Suspishio]

I don't think you have a problem.

Kaninelupus has already advised that a lot of the HP crap can be removed and that will take a lot more of the *32 stuff with it.

You should also note that a 64-bit application will not use 32 bit processes.

A 32-bit application can spawn any number of *32 processes depending on service calls it makes to Windows. Adobe CS3, which you mentioned in post #8, is a 32-bit application and a whole load of *32 processes will immediately appear in Task Manager.

Unless I've misunderstood something, you don't have a problem.

[kaninelupus]

If you can update to CS4, most (although strangely not Acrobat yet) now come with x64 - although will install both x86 and x64 due to some extensions not yet being updated for x64.

Also, are you using FileZilla client or server?? I ask because I know there are a few x64 FTP clients, but will have to did a little harder for free FTP server applications.

MS Office (easy enough to find Technical Preview) is x64, so another app coming up to move away from x86.

A pity you're running Vista not Win7, as with Vista heard quite a few issues running x64 WMP (due to numerous bugs DivX never sorted out), whereas in Win7, most codecs built in natively and running perfectly (not a single movie I haven't been able to play yet, an believe me, have several hundred GB of movies of various encodings) and not a single hitch yet. Would be interesting to compare x64 FLV to x64 WMP12 to see what difference there really is.

Rather than simply relying on Task Manager to keep tabs of x86 apps and memory/resource usage, use this tool, as will also list all the core processes being called up as a result... gives a little more perspective, and very useful.

@suspicio - "Memory usage comparisons show static positions - not "performance drainage". As I said in my earlier post, idle stuff gets heaved out if there is insufficient physical RAM to hold everything in RAM, leaving the target application to run at normal performance."

Now this is where you have me a little confused. You refer to "static positions" & "idle". The stats I gave were in reference to Memory Usage, tallied in total by the Task Manager in the "Physical Memory" usage. Also, in relation to some of the heaviest hitters - media players, Firefox esp. - their memory usage is nothing further from static or idle. Now firstly, my understanding is that only "idle" processes will be heaved out of RAM, meaning if apps are chewing up the RAM, and are active not idle, then they won't be "heaved out" at all (without risk of crashing an app)... and there are only so many idle processes Windows can heave out to accommodate them. Secondly, if a x86 app is showing far more memory usage (both "working set" and "private working set") than a x64 equivalent, how does this not relate to usage of Physical Memory (or RAM)?? If system memory is being chewed up, does this not class as "resource drainage" as memory is part (not all, I know) of the core system resources?

I do come to computers primarily through a graphic/digital arts back-ground, so if this is one of those "black holes", do feel free to correct and clarify :)

[Suspishio]

....@suspicio - "Memory usage comparisons show static positions - not "performance drainage". As I said in my earlier post, idle stuff gets heaved out if there is insufficient physical RAM to hold everything in RAM, leaving the target application to run at normal performance."

Now this is where you have me a little confused. You refer to "static positions" & "idle". The stats I gave were in reference to Memory Usage, tallied in total by the Task Manager in the "Physical Memory" usage. Also, in relation to some of the heaviest hitters - media players, Firefox esp. - their memory usage is nothing further from static or idle. Now firstly, my understanding is that only "idle" processes will be heaved out of RAM, meaning if apps are chewing up the RAM, and are active not idle, then they won't be "heaved out" at all (without risk of crashing an app)... and there are only so many idle processes Windows can heave out to accommodate them. Secondly, if a x86 app is showing far more memory usage (both "working set" and "private working set") than a x64 equivalent, how does this not relate to usage of Physical Memory (or RAM)?? If system memory is being chewed up, does this not class as "resource drainage" as memory is part (not all, I know) of the core system resources?

I do come to computers primarily through a graphic/digital arts back-ground, so if this is one of those "black holes", do feel free to correct and clarify :)

For a non-IT background, you have picked up a heck of a lot that enables you to give sound advice - IMHO at least. Also it is damn useful to have a graphical arts computer expert on the forum.

Me, I'm an ancient IT professional with an obviously big gob/ego! I had the privilege of test driving Microsoft Windows v1 on an Apricot PC back in 1984. Later on we demonstrated to the RAF that Windows 3.0 could multi-program by running a number of program complilations simultaneously and showing the progress windows simultaneously scrolling.

Anyway, back to the VM and *32 issue. "Performance drainage" would ordinarily be taken to be dynamnic in nature. Things are running but more slowly than in other circumstances.

Memory usage figures are a static snapshot. When a single application is running (ignoring for the sake of this discussion background process that may intrude from time to time), it acquires all the memory resources it needs, heaving out (rolling out) idle processes according to an algorithm (such as least used).

The only consideration then is whether or not the amount of physical RAM you have is sufficient for the most demanding application that you might have (or in this case BskiLLs).

So, taking the example of the dynamic expansion of RAM usage by Firefox, idle stuff will be overwritten or heaved out (if there is data to preserve). If you need more RAM than you actually have, your own processes will be heaved in and out or overwritten and brought back in. The answer thare in an x64 OS is to add physical RAM if you feel that the application is suffering from the memory management overheads.

You then mention "resource draining" in the sense of equating it with "performance drainage". That has always been my point in this discussion. "Resource drainage" can be overcome by adding resources. "Performance drainage" can usually be managed by doing less concurrently or by upping processor power.

Increasing RAM increases performance, of course, because there is less time spent heaving stuff in and out.

I think that at this point, we probably converge!

[kaninelupus]

Me, I'm an ancient IT professional with an obviously big gob/ego! I had the privilege of test driving Microsoft Windows v1 on an Apricot PC back in 1984. Later on we demonstrated to the RAF that Windows 3.0 could multi-program by running a number of program complilations simultaneously and showing the progress windows simultaneously scrolling.

Hmmm - been around long enough to remember PC's before Windows - remember the old cassette drives, or the BBC computer? At 34 been around computers for at least 25 of those yrs, but never got heavy-duty on the programming side (a little too much like maths for my liking) although self-taught where I need to to, such as taking on the script-side of Flash or working on a game-based script (such as for X2 or X3), or even decoding nesc DLL files for XP-based theme construction... but will likely never be one of my strong suits.

As to the rest, that does clarify a few issues, so TY very much :)

[BSkiLLs]

I don't think you have a problem.

Kaninelupus has already advised that a lot of the HP crap can be removed and that will take a lot more of the *32 stuff with it.

You should also note that a 64-bit application will not use 32 bit processes.

A 32-bit application can spawn any number of *32 processes depending on service calls it makes to Windows. Adobe CS3, which you mentioned in post #8, is a 32-bit application and a whole load of *32 processes will immediately appear in Task Manager.

Unless I've misunderstood something, you don't have a problem.

Thanks, Yeah wasn't really sure on this machine if there was a actual problem or not. Some of my post was just general info and kinda just chatting about these issue's, and seeing why some of it was or might be acting the way it was. I did tho think something was a little fishy cause of how much ram it was using with barley nothing running anyways, or at least why it was showing that. More less showing that through the gadget meter, but also plus through the system TM but..

Yeah anyways i do get ride of all the default HP crap or any company crap that new systems come with normally, plus as i did on this system. Well except any i might end up using but... which isn't normally a lot.

I am also real familiar with Adobe and mainly Photoshop or any of there design software, plus did some research on the matter as when i couldn't install without that error but.. I swear, plus almost know from myself and others that it is a 64bit program. It's just the install file isn't and they are saying was a mess up on there behalf and was set up for 32 install. That's why had to re-register that one dll mainly in the 64bit folder/directory to get it to install, even install right with out making the system wanta restart, (like it did the first time i tried) when i posted this but..

Since then i have reformatted just for the heck of it before i got it loaded up with all my installs and files just to keep a closer eye on each time i install what the shape of the PC would turn into so to speak, and how it would run.

Thxs tho for all / any info and the help / feedback. :)

[BSkiLLs]

If you can update to CS4, most (although strangely not Acrobat yet) now come with x64 - although will install both x86 and x64 due to some extensions not yet being updated for x64.

Also, are you using FileZilla client or server?? I ask because I know there are a few x64 FTP clients, but will have to did a little harder for free FTP server applications.

MS Office (easy enough to find Technical Preview) is x64, so another app coming up to move away from x86.

A pity you're running Vista not Win7, as with Vista heard quite a few issues running x64 WMP (due to numerous bugs DivX never sorted out), whereas in Win7, most codecs built in natively and running perfectly (not a single movie I haven't been able to play yet, an believe me, have several hundred GB of movies of various encodings) and not a single hitch yet. Would be interesting to compare x64 FLV to x64 WMP12 to see what difference there really is.

Rather than simply relying on Task Manager to keep tabs of x86 apps and memory/resource usage, use this tool, as will also list all the core processes being called up as a result... gives a little more perspective, and very useful.

@suspicio - "Memory usage comparisons show static positions - not "performance drainage". As I said in my earlier post, idle stuff gets heaved out if there is insufficient physical RAM to hold everything in RAM, leaving the target application to run at normal performance."

Now this is where you have me a little confused. You refer to "static positions" & "idle". The stats I gave were in reference to Memory Usage, tallied in total by the Task Manager in the "Physical Memory" usage. Also, in relation to some of the heaviest hitters - media players, Firefox esp. - their memory usage is nothing further from static or idle. Now firstly, my understanding is that only "idle" processes will be heaved out of RAM, meaning if apps are chewing up the RAM, and are active not idle, then they won't be "heaved out" at all (without risk of crashing an app)... and there are only so many idle processes Windows can heave out to accommodate them. Secondly, if a x86 app is showing far more memory usage (both "working set" and "private working set") than a x64 equivalent, how does this not relate to usage of Physical Memory (or RAM)?? If system memory is being chewed up, does this not class as "resource drainage" as memory is part (not all, I know) of the core system resources?

I do come to computers primarily through a graphic/digital arts back-ground, so if this is one of those "black holes", do feel free to correct and clarify :)

Yes, i have CS4 also. Just havent put it on yet as i plan to, then ditch CS3 and CS2 as on my other machines i actually run CS2 AND CS3 .

Also filezilla cleant, not server, and i do have Win7, Just havent used it on this PC yet as it's brand new. I have the last RC full, and ultimate. I dont plan on putting it on this system as of yet cause i have the actual free upgrade to the main Win7 when it comes out so was just waiting until then.

Since i posted this, I did a reformat for the heck of it like i said in the post above and for those reasons and since then, I haven't seen the same issue's totally yet. Not at all really. Running much smoother, not as bad ram usage. Plus the installs went fine this time (kinda but besides Photoshop) Still had to re-register that one dll for it to install, But this time only did the first one as the 2nd was optional, and this time installed great, even without a restart needed or asked for.

I took a screenshot of my process's running also before hand right after re-install of OS, and then after i installed the 5 things i have so far, Which are basic everyday things i use and only installed them so fr which are:
All MS system updates
Firefox + my extensions
MS Office 07
PS CS3
Paintshop Pro12
My older HP all in ones Printers (not that old tho)
WinRAR Corp edt
all my flash players + Adobe flash and shockwave
Filezilla and 2 of my code editors / programs

Thats all so far. I took another Screenshot of my process's also again after for the heck of it, and as i said to keep a closer eye on things and how the system if working per after each program or install.

So far not to bad, but i also have a lot more to install. I stopped there cause of time but also mainly cause the next ones i have coming to install might cause a little issues, or at least the ones in question im thinking. Such as my Logitech cam with video call system. It had issue installing, well not really issue but kinda (when i called them for to see if they had an updated software for the cam i have, they said NO) But i found it on there site well anyways, kinda acted funny when that install happened so been saving that one kinda till now to see what happens and how it acts this time. Plus some of my other but i know mainly the rest besides that one i just mentioned should work ok i believe. Only like 3-4 i have thoughts about might not and give the system some issues, errors or problems with ram / process's or install.. etc etc...

Also note: I been of course making system restore points inbetween as well just incase so of course i dont have to fully restore if i dont need to but... Like so to speak in testing phases..lol.

I hope not but i guess we shall see. So far so good. It's just weird how it did it the first time the way it did and seems not to be doing it now. So that's one reason besides the fact its a new system and i just want to watch and make sure everything is running good and fine and the way it should.. but yeah still going to take pics of the process's and take note of the rams speed and usage drainage or any of it to see and just keep a close eye on things. Since it's a new system, plus running this vista version compared to my other ones, plus X and not to mention Win7, plus the one i've ordered to upgrade to for free once it comes out, just to see the difference in them all and how each runs and so to speak which runs completely better and on what parts.. etc etc..

AND of course cause of the issue's above I've talked about or posted about whether they are actual problems or not.

Still going to of course switch to win7 tho when i get it but always going to compare if you know what i mean on any system OS you use. But yeah i hear and seen it seems to run much smoother thankfully and fixed all or most the flaws from vista and added a couple goodies to.

Hey and thanks for all the help and / or input and feedback.

:)

[BSkiLLs]

For a non-IT background, you have picked up a heck of a lot that enables you to give sound advice - IMHO at least. Also it is damn useful to have a graphical arts computer expert on the forum.
!

lol.. That's what kinda" got me started also.. lol

But I'm a lot into both.

Small world uh? lol :P

[BSkiLLs]

For a non-IT background, you have picked up a heck of a lot that enables you to give sound advice - IMHO at least. Also it is damn useful to have a graphical arts computer expert on the forum.

Me, I'm an ancient IT professional with an obviously big gob/ego! I had the privilege of test driving Microsoft Windows v1 on an Apricot PC back in 1984. Later on we demonstrated to the RAF that Windows 3.0 could multi-program by running a number of program complilations simultaneously and showing the progress windows simultaneously scrolling.

Anyway, back to the VM and *32 issue. "Performance drainage" would ordinarily be taken to be dynamnic in nature. Things are running but more slowly than in other circumstances.

Memory usage figures are a static snapshot. When a single application is running (ignoring for the sake of this discussion background process that may intrude from time to time), it acquires all the memory resources it needs, heaving out (rolling out) idle processes according to an algorithm (such as least used).

The only consideration then is whether or not the amount of physical RAM you have is sufficient for the most demanding application that you might have (or in this case BskiLLs).

So, taking the example of the dynamic expansion of RAM usage by Firefox, idle stuff will be overwritten or heaved out (if there is data to preserve). If you need more RAM than you actually have, your own processes will be heaved in and out or overwritten and brought back in. The answer thare in an x64 OS is to add physical RAM if you feel that the application is suffering from the memory management overheads.

You then mention "resource draining" in the sense of equating it with "performance drainage". That has always been my point in this discussion. "Resource drainage" can be overcome by adding resources. "Performance drainage" can usually be managed by doing less concurrently or by upping processor power.

Increasing RAM increases performance, of course, because there is less time spent heaving stuff in and out.

I think that at this point, we probably converge!

Yeah exactly but my point was also and what i was actually REALLY looking at was the system resource it was using with barely anything running whether i was running it or it was background running.

I had moved up in Ram with this new system straight from it being custom built from HP, not me doing it myself this time like i normally do with aftermarket parts or ram chip but.. That is a lot of what i was keeping an eye on because it just seemed that the ram and the cpu was running real high compared to what i thought it would run as much as i have so to speak and the difference it would run between just running vista itself, and then compared to what it would run with all my stuff and apps added.

It seems to me it takes a hell of a lot just to run vista alone which i believe is way crazy compared to what im use to on my other machines and / or ram size and etc etc.. sizes i have selected and have on this unit.

To me now that i have done this and also posted this and from what we of course have talked about and the feedback from you guy's. It just seems like to me that Vista alone is ridiculous and runs way to much ram alone just by itself even with this amount or ram.

Kinda as an example, I always tell people, friends / clients etc. Or even visitors to my tut sites and forums to always get at least 2gb of ram if they are getting one with vista ever since Vista came out, as back when it first started selling and on the market people / company's was selling it on 1gb units. Which of course you could buy it with a 2gb or higher but would cost way more. Well since then and since it's been out a while now if you notice all the manufactures are noticing this and started selling them with no less like starter ones even with a 2gb min on them. Just basically to run vista itself which i think is crazy.

It seems nowadays (well besides win7, that you need at least 2-3gb just for a basic system to run good even without a lot of apps and such.

It's seems crazy it has gotten so much like that these days. It's like everybody's going up to like 4 - 8 gb instead on just a basic system. Shoot back in the day that was kinda rare, people with 3 or 4gb's you thought to yourself, "damn" that thing must be bad ass or fast, or wow that's one heck of a system. lol

Now its like a must and nothing at all. lol

[BSkiLLs]

Kinda off topic but.. by the way, have you guys ever noticed how much Yahoo widgets runs on the process / Ram end of things on any system ??

Woo !!! That's all i got to say. You would think that little program wouldn't run that much but it does.

Shoot on my XP machines, sometimes depending on which system stats i'm using it on but basically on either. 1gb or 2/3 gb.
Those things take forever and a day to start up cause of that one.

I've even emailed them and gave feedback several time telling them they need to make that thing way more lightweight some how.

[kaninelupus]

Oh, a hint with Adoebe updates... the updater NEEDS to run as Admin (set through properties window) unless the UAC is set right down low.

Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Updater6, set both Adobe_Updater.exe and AdobeUpdaterInstallMgr.exe to run as Admin (set for all users). This is just due to the fact that Windows file protection prevents from running otherwise... holds true for a number of application updaters :)

It's seems crazy it has gotten so much like that these days. It's like everybody's going up to like 4 - 8 gb instead on just a basic system. Shoot back in the day that was kinda rare, people with 3 or 4gb's you thought to yourself, "damn" that thing must be bad ass or fast, or wow that's one heck of a system. lol

True, but given that many end-users expect to pay $500-600 for a computer and then be able to watch all their HD movies, and open a g'zillion tabs in their browser, streaming YouTube and the likes, filesharing and mobile-phone tools.... as well as having a "pretty" computer OS, RAM and Vid card specs HAD to go up just to keep up with it... not to mention running all the extra crapware the OEMs are forever throwing in!

[BSkiLLs]

Oh, a hint with Adoebe updates... the updater NEEDS to run as Admin (set through properties window) unless the UAC is set right down low.

Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Updater6, set both Adobe_Updater.exe and AdobeUpdaterInstallMgr.exe to run as Admin (set for all users). This is just due to the fact that Windows file protection prevents from running otherwise... holds true for a number of application updaters :)

True, but given that many end-users expect to pay $500-600 for a computer and then be able to watch all their HD movies, and open a g'zillion tabs in their browser, streaming YouTube and the likes, filesharing and mobile-phone tools.... as well as having a "pretty" computer OS, RAM and Vid card specs HAD to go up just to keep up with it... not to mention running all the extra crapware the OEMs are forever throwing in!

Cool thanks for the tip.

and lol @ the 2nd part. Yeah i know i do that and / or need my systems to be able to... but you wouldn't think your average users would. Shoot, Even actually know how to utilize all that and run it at the same time..lol