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Note that Microsoft has no way to tell the distribution copy of your OS is a copy or not. The product code is the only thing they really look at.

But MS may be rejecting ALL attempts to install old versions now, as a greedy trick to make you use the horrid Windows 8.

Antitrust Microsoft for its coersive policies.

Edited by MidiMagic

Votes + Comments
more than likely, knowing them
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I am thinking that Windows 8.1 is 4 times the better OS than was 7. Since I use Classic Shell, it is very nearly like XP. No funny tiles when I start either, just a desktop picture and icons.

NTFS is the preferred file system of the newer Windows OS. Never had any issues at all with NTFS.

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I am thinking that Windows 8.1 is 4 times the better OS than was 7. Since I use Classic Shell

that's about the ONLY good 8.1 has to offer, everything else sucks, especially the automated drivers
then we have the MS App store which (from what I'm told) can install, update whatever it wants, and even prevent whatever it wants from executing (such as Steam back then)
<<< no you can't run a perfectly safe and virus free 3rd-party software, but you can install a fully infected MS Office application.

WinXP still allows you much more control over backend customizations (the reason I'm a windows hacker), and still poses no control over your programs or desktop, unlike anything higher.

I don't accept sugar-coated poop like Win8, .NET, MS Office, etc.

EDIT:

NTFS is the preferred file system of the newer Windows OS. Never had any issues at all with NTFS.

NTFS is the preferred system of ANY windows OS because it's the only one provided that can hold large files.
just because it's preferred by MS doesn't mean it's good, in fact it's one of the worst systems you can stumble across.

ReizerFS is the best, and EXT4 is the 2nd best (that I know of), both of which are provided with linux.
Windows can be extended with EXT3 support, but you must have an initial FS before you can install that. :(

Edited by DarkPikachu

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>>The spreadsheets were in the Lotus 123 .wks format.

>It's not Microsoft's fault that Lotus 123 used a non-portable format. It's certainly not up to Microsoft to continue supporting an old format that wasn't even theirs to begin with.

Because Microsoft supported it once, they should continue to supoport it. People's data do not magically disappear because Microsoft quietly stopped supporting them. And most people do not know that such support disappeared, and they still have 123 files.

>>The image files were in the .pcx format, which was deprecated by Microsoft

>The idea of designating something as deprecated is specifically to give people time to do the conversion while the supported tools are still available. If people choose to ignore the warning then that is their own fault.

Most people didn't get any warning.

>>The 7 image viewer won't display .gif animations.

>There are many programs that will display these files. AcdSee and FastStone Viewer for example. FastStone will also display pcx files. ACDSee will convert them.

XP image viewer does display the animation. The .gif animation format is still in use, so why did Microsoft stop displaying it?

>>You can't do pixel-by-pixel image creation in the 7 and later version of MSPaint. They turned it into a stupid artist-oriented program.

>Nobody would do serious work in MSPaint when there are excellent free apps like gimp available.

I use it for line drawings where I don't want any aliasing.

>>Some older music software requires Windows 3.1. I have lost some 50 songs. I can't even look at the sheet music to print it.

>Seriously? You expect to still be able to run Windows 3.1 apps?

We should be able to run anything we have. Get rid of the stupid idea that people don't need old files and software.

I have copyrighnts on those songs, but I no longer have the songs themselves in any form except recordings I made of them. And I'd bet that even the copyright office can't read those files now.

Under your thinking (and Microsoft's reality), nobody can ever properly do a 20-year study in a computer-controlled lab environment. As soon as the computers fail, the study is ruined. You can't get those computers anymore, and the hardware-control software won't run on newer computers or operating systems. In many cases, the hardware interface won't even fit into the new computer, rendering the expensive lab machine useless.

I want an operating system that never removes how it treats old applications or hardware interfaces. Microsoft wants me to throw away all of the files and software I have with every upgrade.

Edited by MidiMagic: more

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We should be able to run anything we have. Get rid of the stupid idea that people don't need old files and software.

You can. Just keep your old computer with your copy of DOS 1.0 or CP/M, or possibly AmigaDOS or whatever. I don't see you ragging on Gary KilDall or Commodore because those systems are no longer supported.

I have copyrighnts [sic] those songs, but I no longer have the songs themselves in any form except recordings I made of them. And I'd bet that even the copyright office can't read those files now.

You do know that sheet music is pretty much always readable. There are even programs that will do OCR on musical scores.

Under your thinking (and Microsoft's reality), nobody can ever properly do a 20-year study in a computer-controlled lab environment.

You can if you save your data. Nobody says that you have to do a 20 year study on the same computer. Weather analysis is regularly done on data going back more than 100 years. My former company does studies on power systems using data that we started collecting in 1975. Back then there was no Microsoft.

As soon as the computers fail, the study is ruined.

Any study that is ruined because of a failed computer is a study that was poorly designed.

In many cases, the hardware interface won't even fit into the new computer, rendering the expensive lab machine useless.

I worked for years with people whose job was specifically to build custom software for just such cases.

Microsoft wants me to throw away all of the files and software I have with every upgrade.

It is incumbent on you to save your data in a portable form. If you require an old OS then build one in a virtual machine. One of our pieces of software ran only under Windows 95. As far as I know it is still running in a VM. If you don't like being held hostage by Microsoft apps like Word and Excel that use a proprietary format then install the OpenDoc extension or use Open Office. Nobody is forcing you to use Microsoft apps.

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the only thing I can agree with in the above post:

Nobody is forcing you to use Microsoft apps.

everything else...
what good is your work if you'll be throwing it away in 6 months?

just get linux, and you'll have very few compatibility issues on an OS upgrade.

or you could take up the part of rev's post I actually agree with and use a software that works on win XP and win 12, converting all of your work to it.

but I don't agree with the loss in backwards compatibility.
1: I don't have the money to be upgrading my compy like MS wants.
2: I don't have the money to be running too many compys at the same time

You can. Just keep your old computer with your copy of DOS 1.0 or CP/M, or possibly AmigaDOS or whatever.

got an extra $50 a month for me so I can do just that?

Edited by DarkPikachu

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Even car companies are not required to continue making parts for old cars forever. Technology changes and while I do have a problem with deliberate obsolescence as a means of driving upgrades, I do not expect any company, not even Microsoft, to continue to include the support software to ensure that every old piece of software will continue to run forever. If they did then my C partition would have to be double the size that it is currently.

Edited by Reverend Jim

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Like Reverend Jim has stated, prepare for contingencies regarding files and data. I have a computer running both XP PRO (SP3) and Windows 8.1 (which I am posting with at the moment.. actually Firefox, but that's available even for XP. I can boot back into Windows XP and run programs I have there that I do not even need to install on 8.1 I can access documents, music, folers, files, pictures, movies, etc within Windows 8.1 by following my data stores(folders) that were created in XP. Even email in 8.1 is saved to the same folders as that which I use in XP. Result is that any email downloaded into which ever account I am in in 8.1 will be there exactly when I go to the Outlook Express in Windows XP. Save pictures just the same. However, there are a few little programs I liked that are not around in 8.1 so I just don't worry about it. Personally I really like XP and am in 8.1 to learn new things and understand it's ways. With Classic Shell, navigation and registry edits/tweaks, services.msc and all are the same. It provides a useable desktop and same layout and features as XP has.

XP is working fine... and gets along fine with 8.1

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I still don't agree with running multiple OS's or compys.
like Nintendo does, MS should do as well.

I'm currently running XP on my secondary compy as a windows testing environment for my programs.
(I refuse to test on anything newer as I don't want hackers breaking into and controlling my compy through MS's new shiney metal backdoors which they had professionally installed themselves right into the kernel)

but on my main compy, I run Xubuntu 14.04 which can run most windows programs and can be costomized with a WinXP-like desktop UI.
would be nice if Skype 6 ran on it though... >.>
___

linux has quite a few compatibility issues though (which are at least fixed in time, unlike windows which only gets worse), and the community is as lacking as the OS when it comes to help.

nobody seems to have heard of playing a console game or your MP3 player through your compy's speaker system while chatting with your friends through a VOIP software such as Skype.

I'm still counting, it's been almost 2 months since I asked for help on that issue and am still waiting for someone.

1

Two PC's have been freed from the opression of Windows 7 (Lenovo H430) and 8 (HP3410) respectively and liberated with Windows XP Pro succesfully in the last two weeks. Both owners and PC's are very satisfied and are happily computing with a sense of freedom

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Well I am in computer hell at the moment With Windows 10 I downloaded 10061 last night then 10074 came out so I had to download it using the school pc's! I wish I was back with XP.

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I am very fortunate to be able to still use XP and am completely satisfied with XP. Dreams can come true, you can use XP again

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>>We should be able to run anything we have. Get rid of the stupid idea that people don't need old files and software.

>You can. Just keep your old computer with your copy of DOS 1.0 or CP/M, or possibly AmigaDOS or whatever. I don't see you ragging on Gary KilDall or Commodore because those systems are no longer supported.

So what do I do when that computer dies, cannot be fixed (because parts are no longer available) and can't be replaced with a new one? Those programs and devices do not work in new computers, because they changed how the hardware in the new computers works.

>>I have copyrights those songs, but I no longer have the songs themselves in any form except recordings I made of them. And I'd bet that even the copyright office can't read those files now.

>You do know that sheet music is pretty much always readable. There are even programs that will do OCR on musical scores.

I did not print out the music at first because I had a daisy wheel printer. Then, when I got an ink jet printer, the ink was so expensive that I printed only one song (using half the cartridge). I have the files, but no printouts.

The problem is that, when this music was written, a special font of music notes of various values in various positions was used by the software. The "sheet music" file itself is a non-text text file. And I can't figure out the sequence of the items, since some of them are not characters, but codes for part number and staff location. This was one of the first pieces of sheet music software that existed for Windows.

>>Under your thinking (and Microsoft's reality), nobody can ever properly do a 20-year study in a computer-controlled lab environment.

>You can if you save your data. Nobody says that you have to do a 20 year study on the same computer. Weather analysis is regularly done on data going back more than 100 years. My former company does studies on power systems using data that we started collecting in 1975. Back then there was no Microsoft.

We had the data we collected and can still read it. The trouble was that we could no longer collect any new data. The new computer could not operate the old computer-controlled lab hardware. The computer bus timing has changed. In some cases, the old connection point is no longer provided on the new compouter (e.g. a bus card).

>Any study that is ruined because of a failed computer is a study that was poorly designed.

See the next item.

>>In many cases, the hardware interface won't even fit into the new computer, rendering the expensive lab machine useless.

>I worked for years with people whose job was specifically to build custom software for just such cases.

I am not talking about software. I am talking about the hardware connection to the computer and how the computer operates it. Everything made for the lab in the 1990s (when we started the studies) used the ISA bus connector for a special hardware control circuit board that operated the lab equipment. There was no standard way to do it.

How were we to predict in what directions computing equipment would go? In 1992, nobody knew that Windows would replace DOS, that bus timings would change, that the ISA connector would be gone, that the OS would restrict the timing of I/O, that the method of configuring hardware in the OS would change, or that Microsoft would be radically changing the operating system every 3 years.

10 years later, the ISA bus connector was gone from the new computers, and the lab instrument company had gone out of business. When the last computer we bought for the purpose failed, we were scuppered. The lab device itself (20 years later) still works perfectly today when manually controlled (it was very well-built), but we can't find any working computers to control it. Remember, in the 1990s, there was no USB, and the serial and parallel ports were too slow to do the job.

If we started a study today with today's equipment, using equipment that is as standard as we can get today, we would probably again find out 10 years later that none of that "standard" stuff would still be still available.

>>Microsoft wants me to throw away all of the files and software I have with every upgrade.

>It is incumbent on you to save your data in a portable form. If you require an old OS then build one in a virtual machine. One of our pieces of software ran only under Windows 95. As far as I know it is still running in a VM. If you don't like being held hostage by Microsoft apps like Word and Excel that use a proprietary format then install the OpenDoc extension or use Open Office. Nobody is forcing you to use Microsoft apps.

I'm not talking about Microsoft aps. I'm talking about third party aps that no longer work on today's computers. And I usually do not find out about the program not working or the file format not being readable until after the old computer or OS is gone.

One time, I came into work to find my old computer was gone, and IT had installed a new computer with the latest operating system on it. All of the files had been copied over, but the old programs didn't work and the old data could not be read. This was a change from Windows 3.1 to Windows ME. And even the MS DOS programs I wrote in Quickbasic would not work correctly. They left the device control ISA cards on top of the computer because they would not fit in the new computer

They had to bring back my old computer and put it next to the new computer so I could use my files. I converted over what I could, but a lot of stuff would not convert. And my desk no longer had any place left for me to write on paper.

When I buy a program to do a job, I am usually stuck with the file format that program makes. I usually don't have a choice of file format. And at work, IT puts the needed software out on bids, choosing the cheapest software to do the job, not the most compatible.

A virtual machine does no good if the new hardware has different bus timing and the original software was real-time. Also, old versions of Windows don't know what a CD drive is, can't read a large hard disk, and have no idea what a USB drive is. Plug-and-play hadn't been invented yet. The only kind of storage drive I have that works on both Windows 3.1 and Windows XP is a 1.44 MB 3.5" floppy.

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Google Maps just stopped working correctly in XP today. They are now forcing people to use their new format. It requires 7 as a minimum.

There is a store here that refurbishes old computers for the poor. They put XP on them because it is the only OS that fits and works in the available RAM.

If companies keep making software stop working in XP to please Microsoft, the people who got these computers are going to have useless equipment.

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I'm running XP Pro sp3 and Google maps is working woderfully. We have comcast internet at work and no worries here.

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may as well mention I've started working on a guide to safely install and use both WinXP Black and x64.

http://tcll5850.proboards.com/thread/323/tclls-guide-continue-using-winxp

this is the methods I've been using for years, and they havn't failed me yet.
(the only things that have failed were my garbage HDDs)

I'm sure there's alot I could improve upon that I've not mentioned...
I've only just started the guide. :P

also, I know I'm only using CFW and not CAV...
CAV is really good, but it could be better performance-wize with active protection.
(at least it doesn't corrupt your OS like AVG, Norton, and McAfee)
^ don't even get me started

also, XP Black doesn't include MS Paint :(
I'll be sure to host a download for it later on. ;)
I'll also be sure to tell you how to edit the registry to restore the R-click > Edit context menu entry for supported image files :)

Edited by DarkPikachu

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BTW, if you dual boot XP and Windows 8.1 or above (think it even started with windows8) There is a "gotcha" you need to be aware of. In your "power" setting in control panel and advanced, there it shows yous a check mark on Fast Startup. Un-check that. What happens is you may save work back to your disk and expect it to be there when you work in XP. Wel, that new OS "caches" info like a hibernate mode and if just reboot, all is fine. However, if you turn off the comptuter competely and reboot there will be isseus as it will corrupt files and cause a headache.

I have not had an issue as I read about it on another forum. But thought I'd share this if you dual boot you XP with 8 or above.

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Google maps is not running on XP correctly on my machine because it often demands more free RAM than I have at the time. So it freezes. I found out that I can't use it while the antivirus is scanning and several other processes are open. Unfortunately, I usually want it to get information for one of those other processes.

Unfortunately, my motherboard is fully populated with RAM. Part of the problem is that they keep making programs bigger and bigger. Last year Firefox used 64 MB of RAM. Right now, it is using 780 MB.

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I just installed a tab killer, so now I use about 1GB for 8 tabs instead of 3GB for 5. :3

I use chromium though which is safer than FF and chrome mind you, so my memory goes through the roof normally :P

Edited by DarkPikachu

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I have a LeadTek WinFast 2000TV PCI card that I can receive FM radio stations with. Works great in my XP at work, but then when I boot into Windows 10 I can't seem to get any drivers that work with it. Older piece of equipment, but still works great in XP. I can select channels, listen to radio shows and record them in different formats if I want. It "used" to also get TV but since they did away with analog and went to digital that part doesn't work anymore. But, the FM radio still works very well..... in XP.

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oh why didn't I recall this earlier >3<

best filesystem included on windows (not sure about the new kernel) is ExFAT,
which works just as well as NTFS, though unfortunately w/o the benefits of compression...
the best part is ExFAT is about as likely to corrupt as FAT32,
which is, I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong plz), less likely than NTFS, and majorly less likely than compressed NTFS.

I've been using ExFAT since my 500GB (the one that ChkDsk forcefully took 2-3 days to completely corrupt) went RAW.
that was a few years back, and since then, I've never had a single corruption or HDD failure.
(NTFS only took a few months before corruptions started happening)

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@XP78USER: follow my guide before connecting to the internet ;)
http://tcll5850.proboards.com/thread/323

it really helps ;)
Comodo is the big help here, HIPS notifys you of anything that tries to run.

also, you can choose to trust WinUpdate if you like, but I've seen it break too many PCs to trust it.

Edited by DarkPikachu

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i just bought a new p.c with windows 7 option upgrade to windows 8.1 .if windows 7 becomes extinct like x.p more than likely i will put linuux on it. my son has lap top had windows 8 crashed all the time . put linix it rund good

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@jerry: might I recommend Zorin :)

Xubuntu is not all that great for starters, though it's slightly better, you have to configure the UI to operate like Windows XP.
Zorin has a more 7-like UI with relatively the same features and behavior.

so yea, learn the basics with Zorin, and THEN move on to Xubuntu or whatever your preference :)

just don't get the resource hogging Kubuntu :P
lol

or you can follow my guide above and use WinXP if you like :)
note: the XP Black I provide is only slightly safer than the XP Pro SP3 provided by MS.
(I still don't believe MS has yet patched their XP Pro SP3 ISO)
if you have a x64 PC, please use XP x64 SP2, it's much safer than XP Black.

it's better to switch to linux though... heh
(linux has quite alot less corruptive tencdancies than windows)

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