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I think it's all a scam. Creative's soundblaster model is one of the most popular cards and they refuse to make compatible drivers for any os after xp therefore trying to force you to buy their newer stuff. Same for many other companies.

Palebushman 8 Bush IT Poster

"MARKETING" Ah yes, is that the profession that requires the following attributes, for one to appease the boss and shareholders greed these days?:-
Be a very convincing liar.
Be a genius at deception.
Care less about polluting the planet.
Treat fellow humans as plebs.

Leave our XP alone, and if you don't want to support it any longer, SELL IT OFF to a team who do!!!

ggeoff 4 Junior Poster- 72 years old :)

Marketing: the four Ps. Promote the right Product at the right Price in the right Place. Microsoft's operating system is free when you buy a new computer:) Every company needs to make a profit.

Reverend Jim 4,110 Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. Moderator Featured Poster

Microsoft's operating system is free when you buy a new computer

If you believe that then you also believe the stores when they run sales claiming "We pay the tax". Here in Canada we have the GST (goods and services tax). Every now and then The Brick (furniture) has a sale in which they tout "No GST". It is illegal to not pay the GST. What The Brick really means is "we've bundled the tax into the price". You are still paying the tax and if you think otherwise then you are sadly mistaken. When you buy a new computer, Microsoft gets its $$. It's just bundled into the price.

Every company needs to make a profit.

I'd amend that to "every company needs to make a fair profit".

ggeoff 4 Junior Poster- 72 years old :)

Dear Father Jim,

I still think that support for users with XP computers should continue. But I can understand that there is a cost factor in supplying that support. The question to put to Microsoft is: given that a lot of users throughout the world (often very poor users) use XP and even if they wanted to cannot buy a computer with Windows 7 or higher whether Microsoft's costs to continue supporting XP users is relatively low (it may even be very high!). I suppose the argument is that XP is more vulnerable than later operating systems. Users are safer with newer operating systems.

What is a fair profit? Does eBay for example make a fair profit? Are you suggesting that Microsoft is making an unfair profit?

Reverend Jim 4,110 Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. Moderator Featured Poster

Are you suggesting that Microsoft is making an unfair profit?

I'm not suggesting that MS is making an unfair profit. But perhaps they are making a profit unfairly. I'm going to just make up some numbers here for the sake of argument. Let's say you make widgets and it costs you $10 to produce each widget and you have a market for a million of them. Charging (again, just for example) $12 for each widget would give you a fair profit. Charging $50 for each would be an unfair profit. Let's assume that every two years you come out with a new version of the widget and you also sell it for $12 (we'll ignore inflation). Again, that's a reasonable profit. But let's add a wrinkle. Let's say that you force the users to discard the old widgets and buy new ones. That's making a profit unfairly. Especially if the only difference is (for example) in the colour.

That's what MS has been doing with Office. My former company (5000+ employees) was forced to upgrade all copies of Office in order to remain compatible with other utilities with which we did business. The existing version of Office was easily appropriate for the demand but we had to spend $$$ and much time to roll out each new version. And the only new features were new file formats (which were not backward compatible) and a ribbon interface that nobody asked for and most of our users did not like.

ggeoff 4 Junior Poster- 72 years old :)

sounds like your company should not have relied on utilities. And why didn't those companies that supplied the utilities upgrade to the new op. system? I have, a trivial example: Febooti ie zoom. it is a an addon for IE, great for website developers, I also have ie spell. It (they) may have been upgraded for IE 9 etc but I have not checked. It is even free, so if the publisher can upgrade for IE 9 etc and needs to charge a fair price that is ok for me. The issue I find is that some of these independent publishers want to charge quite a lot anyway(like half the cost of an op system upgrade). Another reason why I do not want to abandon XP! (IE8 is part of XP Pro) There is a well defined improvement in the rationale for the Microsoft development of their operating systems. Unfortunately, it is not easy to find :) Up to you Microsoft: what are the advantages of upgrading from XP pro to Windows 7 etc?

JorgeM 966 Problem Solver Team Colleague Featured Poster

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade. If you want to continue running XP, you can just unsupported in about a year from now.

If someone doesn't like the way Microsoft charges for their product, they don't have to buy it.

Unfortunately, its easier said then done especially in the Enterprise type networks because of all of the dependencies but the choice is still there. The reason why more people don't move away from Windows is simply because their isn't a cheaper, operating system for what you get out there.

Of course, you may say Linux is free...not really when you consider what it will cost for an organization to move away from windows and support Linux.

The reason why people buy Macs are because they are awesome and some people are willing to pay more. If it was half the price, there would be no more Windows at least not for the desktop.

Reverend Jim 4,110 Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. Moderator Featured Poster

It's not a matter of relying on them. My company (Manitoba Hydro) is the provincial power utility with interconnections to neighbouring provinces and several states. By utilities I mean other power utilities. We buy and sell power and this requires constant communication between the various power utility companies as well as a central authority. Unfortunately, there is no agreement on standardization for things like what version of software is acceptable. Thus, when one company upgrades to the latest and greatest it becomes necessary to also upgrade to remain compatible. The coontrol centre comprises a relatively small number of people but those people commmunicate with the rest of the corporation so you end up with the tail wagging the dog. This would not be a problem if Microsoft didn't keep breaking backward compatibility.

As for upgrading to a new version of the OS, Manitoba Hydro is just starting the migration from XP to Windows 7. The cost of the migration can be broken down into

  1. cost of the new OS
  2. cost of time for IT to perform the upgrade
  3. cost of new hardware
  4. lost productivity during the upgrade
  5. training cost

Of those costs, the actual cost of the OS is a minor comoponent.

Fortunately, having different utilities running different version of Windows is not a problem as the data does not rely so much on the underlying OS as it does on the application used to create the data. As well, the realtime connections are all done using custom software for which the upgrade cycle is strictly controlled.

Wil 0' Wisp 2 Newbie Poster

Hi again It really is simple Use XP carry on using XP (if you can) Most 'companies' require basic level functionality from their Office products, provided they can interchange data with other people i.e. emails, docs, spreadsheets it should not be an issue. See my previous posts re virtual machines for supporting XP applicationand devices, it does work! It windows 7 networking 'connect manually every time' something wrong there on that one. I think some basic network troubleshooting needs to be done there. Microspodge have done the usual turn everything you knew about on to the floor, shovel it up and shove it back it the box and call it new. They have to make money somehow, they want to make ooh so exciting and new. Well here is the news there ain't nothing new it all just a rehash of everything that went before. You can can configure Window 8 and 7 to look just how you want it, you might just have to learn a bit more about something that is 'orrible and nasty at first. It is an operating system, it not an apple, its not a must have it, something you use to get things done, time to get over it, or work around it, not cry about it

ggeoff 4 Junior Poster- 72 years old :)

Bob Rankin has possibly heard of this topic: Click Here

Wil 0' Wisp 2 Newbie Poster

Yes that is about what has been said all along, I dont agree the malware people will leap to attack keep the old systems up long enough and they won't bother (come on they are not a big enough target) The nasty people (organised crime?) are'nt going for the Apple's dar I suggest they should as they seem to to be 1)Daft enough to pay inflated prices for their hardware 2) Well off enough to pay and not to notice ..

Palebushman 8 Bush IT Poster

MidiMagic posted this way back in the thread:- "We need laws protecting consumers from the upgrade scam.

The law should state that either the computer or software manufacturer provides service and support for its products for 20 years (like the parts law for automobiles) or the patents and copyrights on the abandoned products go to public domain the moment they stop providing service and support."

If MS don't want to support XP, why not find an interested party that will!? Let them take the updates etc onboard. AV companies are always looking for holes and other flaws in XP to fix, so why not sell the unwanted OS to them?
The 'It's my ball and I don't want to play anymore' attitide from MS is rather quite sad.

jithinjohny 0 Junior Poster

i was also a windows xp fan, but somehow i have changed to windows 7 and now am satisfied with it :)

lynn.scott.731 0 Newbie Poster

I have used winXP since my Vista died in 2005 (which I hated). I am 63 and on SS Disability and cannot afford a new computer. Got my first computer in 2003 with SSI back-pay check. Taught myself. I am with Comcast and have their Norton Security Suite and wonder if that will no longer protect me when XP retires? My church gave me my Xp tower. I guess I will be offline come next April 14th then?

greenknight 0 Newbie Poster

If Norton stops supporting XP, you can get free programs that do just as good a job or better. The main problem is deciding what to get from the huge variety of programs available, but here's a good way to simplify that: go to and click on the "Top Freeware Picks" link in the right sidebar. It's a very reputable site, all the software they list is tested to be free from spyware, viruses, etc., and the programs they recommend are all good choices.

Just remember that the site is supported by advertising, and don't confuse the ads with the site content - the ads are labeled "advertisement" in real fine print.

MidiMagic 579 Nearly a Senior Poster

The real problem is that anyone with real-world hardware attached to the computer is a slave to the operating system it was produced for. An upgrade to the operating system usually means the expensive equipment does not work anymore. In many cases, the company cannot make it work with the new operating system because the system timing does not allow it. So they either come out with a totally new version of the hardware or go out of business. In some cases, they must replace the hardware card, because the new comnputers don't have the old interface slots.

When we had MS-DOS, the same equipment worked on all versions from the original to MS-DOS 6.2. There were no real changes in the timing of the system iteself. The biggest proiblem I ever had with an OS upgrade back then was when an upgrade from DOS 2.4 to DOS 3.0 caused the DBase III software to refuse to run. The addition of folders (then called directories) to the disk directory erased the software copy protection key DBase used without permission from Microsoft.

When Windows 2.0, 3.0, and 3.1 appeared, some older hardware worked only when Windows had not yet been started after a boot. Other hardware needed Windows to be running. Thus, we were sometimes rebooting the computer when we switched applications.

With the advent of Windows 95 and later, DOS was not really DOS anymore. The timing was Windows timing, even if DOS was on the screen. So the old equipment could not be used. New equipment usually will not work with any Windows version other than the one it was designed for. An upgrade spells death to the expensive equipment.

We are now seeing a new generation of equipment with its own operating system on board. The equipment must be programmed by submitting a text file containing the program to be used. The connection is a USB port, with the operating controls on a Windows screen. But there are still timing prtoblems, especially if the timing of a mouse click on the Windows screen is important to the research. And the company is often late producing a new interface when the old one won't work anymnore on the new Windows version. And sometimes the equipment can't be programmed to do a complex sequence of operations.

As an example of how a change affects people, this editing window changes the behavior of the keyboard. I keep using the HOME and END keys to go to the beginning or emd of a line, and this window takes me to the beginning or end of a pargraph instead. What a timewaster!

The problem is that ANY operating system upgrade spells potential death for much expensive equipment. Even music producers find their MIDI and SMPTE interfaces failing when a new operating system is installed.

Reverend Jim 4,110 Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. Moderator Featured Poster

I guess I will be offline come next April 14th then?

No reason for that to happen. Just because M$ will stop issuing updates for XP doesn't mean it will stop working. Keep your anti-virus current and you should be fine.

AKsarben 6 Light Poster

I browse the interenet. I read email and have multiple accounts. Load pictures off my camera and tweak them a bit with either the windows resizer tool or use my Adobe Photoshop. All my apps work with XP. It works. Always and is a lot easier to tweak than any other "new" OS I have tried. I like ability to get into my OS and work with the system, and XP lets me do it. We 3 at home have it as well as all the computers at work have XP, and only 3 of them have Pro, the rest have Home and we do great.

javanoob101 10 Junior Poster

Why does Xp refuse to die?... Why does this post refuse to die?

Simple. Xp was, is and always will be one of the most stable and reliable OS's MS has ever made.

Long live XP!

markwiering commented: Windows 2000 Professional was more stable and more reliabe than Windows XP. Windows XP is pretty good, better than Windows Vista, 7 and 8, but it can't beat Windows 2000 Professional. Windows 2000 Professional is the best operating system Microsoft ever m +1
RobertHDD commented: Unstability in 7 and 8 are not very good +2
AKsarben 6 Light Poster

I agree with Javanoob101 I have applications in my XP Pro that allow me to edit pitrues (Adobe Photoshop), record and play CD and DVDs, edit and creat MP3 and other files, and so on. I do not need to have the OS come bundled with it. Linux is a pain at times to install and uninstall programs. Sometimes there is not a program that does exactly what you want it to do in the same as Windows. Long live XP !!

markwiering 22 Light Poster

Windows XP is still getting security updates and it's much lightweighter than Windows Vista, 7 and 8. Windows XP is perfect for slightly older computers. If you have an Intel Pentium III with 512 MB RAM, Windows Vista won't run properly on it and Windows 7 and Windows 8 will perhaps not run at all, but Windows XP will.

markwiering 22 Light Poster

I see a lot of positives comments about Windows XP.

I agree that Windows XP is a pretty good operating system. It's user friendly, pretty stable, reliable, lightweight compared to Windows Vista/7/8 and nice. But, what about Windows 2000 Professional? I like Windows 2000 Professional more than Windows XP, because Windows 2000 Professional is lightweighter, faster, more stable, reliabler and has a better user interface. Windows 2000 Professional is just superior to Windows XP. The only disadvange of Windows 20000 Professional, is that the most software doesn't support Windows 2000 Professional anymore, so you will be forced to install older versions. I find the default look of Windows XP ugly, so I always set it to the classic Windows-mode, but it's still not the same as Windows 2000 Professional. The Start-button left-down is different.

At first, this computer was running Windows 2000 Professional. I really liked it. Then I got an external hard drive of 2 TB. I was really happy with it, because the internal hard drive of my computer isn't that big (40 GB). But, the external hard drive didn't work with Windows 2000 Professional, so I was forced to upgrade my computer to Windows XP. The first things I did: installing the drivers, set the old Windows-theme, running GameXP and customize it to my preferences.

Now Windows XP feels pretty much the same as Windows 2000 Professional. The user interface is very familiar. Almost all software that ran on Windows 2000 Professional works with Windows XP. I can use the same hot keys (like Alt+Tab, Windows-key + M , Windows-key + R etc). I can do the same things with it. But, there are still some differences. Under Windows 2000 Professional, 16-bit software ran well on my computer. With Windows XP, 16-bit software doesn't work anymore on this computer. Also, Windows XP crashes more than Windows 2000 Professional. If a program crashes, I can try to shut it down with Windows Task Manager. Sometimes it works, but sometimes I am forced to reboot my computer. With Windows 2000 Professional, Windows Task Manager almost always works. Reboots were needed very rarely.

I really dislike the fact that my Medion external hard drive doesn't support Windows 2000 Professional. If there was a way to make that external hard drive work under Windows 2000 Professional, I would immediately downgrade my computer to Windows 2000 Professional.

Palebushman 8 Bush IT Poster

In reply to Reverend Jim's:- "No reason for that to happen. Just because M$ will stop issuing updates for XP doesn't mean it will stop working. Keep your ant-virus current and you should be fine."

Somewhere back in 2005/6 I seem able to re-call the 'Naughty boys' at MS were globally reprimanded for installing some sinister gizmo in one of the MS auto Updates. My point here Jim is this, what is there to stop MS from putting some kind of 'Kill Switch' in the last available update to XP, so that it can no longer access the Internet? AV programs would then be redundant and all the MS shareholders would be overjoyed too.

Reverend Jim 4,110 Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. Moderator Featured Poster

What would stop them is massive consumer outrage and possibly legal action. Any update like that which would kill a system could also be blocked by the end-user.

AKsarben 6 Light Poster

I agree, Jim. Many of the computers at work do not auto-update. Working just fine. Same here at home. Also if you want to update, you can find a compiled "UPDATE" grouping of files and hotfixes put out there for slipstreaming into a Windows XP install with SP3, NEW updates, Media Player 10, Explorer 8 and so on. I know, I've done it. Those updates would have been tried and vetted, so to speak, and if anything was found hinky, would be quickly removed.

harun2u 1 Newbie Poster

I am win xp user.It is good oprarating soft.

markwiering commented: Yes, but Windows 2000 Professional is way better than Windows XP. +1
Wil 0' Wisp 2 Newbie Poster

Mirosoft really doesn't have to do anything, removal of the activation servers will do it for them.
30 days and then? Unless you have a 'activated' copy of XP what then?
This dicussion would almost be better aimed at way to preserve what you have. You guys have one problem is how long do you expect the hardware to last. Or are you going to store quantites of harddrives and PSUs. Not forgetting that XP wil demand a reactivation if you change too many things at once instruction echo off@ goto line one...

I have systems around which I know are over 25 years old Amstrad CPC64 complete with Midi interface moinitor and tape machine, who is going to want that for high speed internet access?
A SCo Unix system approaching 20 years, Hands up who know what that is!
Just worked on a Win98 pc dialup modem, guess what too slow on the internet

It will all be fine if you don't want ever larger amounts of data to play with with even more colours.

Discuss; Video conferencing, unified coms, multiple page full colour documents with embedded high quality full page Pictures/photographs and then some idiot tries to email it.

I like XP Iam getting to like Win7, Win8 or it should be WinHate? another MS dropout (DOS3, Windows2 Windows for Workgroups, Win98 ist ed, Win ME,) But be realistic about it, please no more head in the sand stuff

caperjack 875 I hate 20 Questions Team Colleague

Internet software has out grown winxp ,just install IE9 on it and you'll see what i mean ,just did a fresh install of winxp pro on a dell latitude d800 laptop about 7 or 8 years old[looks just like new ] i think and it works great ,but i wqill not go higher than IE8.just saying

markwiering 22 Light Poster

Mirosoft really doesn't have to do anything, removal of the activation servers will do it for them.
30 days and then? Unless you have a 'activated' copy of XP what then?

Well, if Microsoft would remove their activation servers for Windows XP, you can't activate Windows XP anymore. After installing Windows XP you can can use it for 30 days and then you have to reinstall it. That would be awful and frustrating: reinstalling Windows XP every 30 days.

But, there is a way to bypass the activation. I have read there are several programs that can bypass the activation of Windows XP so you don't have to reinstall it every 30 days. There are also cracked versions of Windows XP where they also removed the activation.

Now we are using only genuine versions of Windows at home. But, if we ever have to reinstall Windows XP for whatever the reason may be after Microsoft removed his activation servers for Windows XP, we will just bypass that activation with one of those programs so we can still use Windows XP. It would be a real scandal if Microsoft can prevent you from using a genuine copy of Windows XP where you have paid for.

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