What make Vista bad? - Page 2

[jbennet]

lower? rubbish... you can only run 16 or 32 bit code on intel x86 compatible CPUs.

anyway, 16 bit DOS apps were only supported in systems prior to and including XP 32 bit. In XP x64, windows server, and vista, they are not supporred. If you actually bothered to read the HCL and Release Notes before installing vista 64 bit, you would be aware of that...

And yes, here are the downsides of turning off UAC:

If you disable UAC, you also disable UPI. UPI (user priviledge isolation) uses the new system of Integrity Levels (an extension on the existing ACL framework) which aims to stop lower privileged applications communicating with more priviledged ones. With UAC disabled, its easier for a malicious program running under limited priviledges to communicate with another which is running with more rights and enabled it to perform "shatter attacks" using message injection.

Also, this means that Internet Explorers Protected Mode (where it runs IE under a low privilege and in a sandbox ) .is disabled, which facilitates further security flaws, particuarly those caused by malicious addins like spyware toolbars.

And yes, File & Registry Virtualization (responsible for doing handy things like redirecting requests for \\Documents and Settings\ to \Users im vista as well as other folders and registry keys) is only active when UAC is turned on. For that reason many older programs will not work correctly when UAC is off

UACs token system also means the system is more secure in the event that the shell is maliously modified as most of the userland runs under a low priviledge mode. Disbling UAC also disables secure desktop which again further increases the risk of attack from a malicously modified shell or logon window.

The solution is NOT to disable UAC, but to go into group polcicy and change the policy for UAC prompts for administrators (Admin Approval Mode) from the default setting of "'Prompt for consent" to dont prompt. This keeps most of the underlying functionality, but gets rid of the majority of the prompts.

[Talonis]

lower? rubbish... you can only run 16 or 32 bit code on intel x86 compatible CPUs.

anyway, 16 bit DOS apps were only supported in systems prior to and including XP 32 bit. In XP x64, windows server, and vista, they are not supporred. If you actually bothered to read the HCL and Release Notes before installing vista 64 bit, you would be aware of that...

I didn't buy my computer, my parents did. Without me. And we have no other OS is the house but 64-bit Vista, and my mom doesn't want to buy XP. Don't fucking call me stupid. (64-bit Vista has a 32-bit program emulator, but anything lower, such as 16-bit or, hey 8-bit, will not run.)

[jbennet]

um i didnt call you stupid...

And yes, i know 64 bit versions of windows have the WoW32 (Windows On Windows) layer but as i said, they do not have the 16-bit DOS layer in the 64 bit edition , and the version in Vista 32 is quite limited also as its video modes arent compatible with WDDM. (full screen is impossible) This generally means that old 16 bit games dont work in vista at all.

if you insist in running 10+ year old games then your best bet is maybe an emulator like DosBox, or perhaps getting a copy of windows 98 or something and running your old games in it under VmWare

[Talonis]

um i didnt call you stupid...

And yes, i know 64 bit versions of windows have the WoW32 (Windows On Windows) layer but as i said, they do not have the 16-bit DOS layer in the 64 bit edition , and the version in Vista 32 is quite limited also as its video modes arent compatible with WDDM. (full screen is impossible) This generally means that old 16 bit games dont work in vista at all.

if you insist in running 10+ year old games then your best bet is maybe an emulator like DosBox, or perhaps getting a copy of windows 98 or something and running your old games in it under VmWare

Sorry. Been having a bad week. However, I've found some holes in Vista that were fixed by Windows 7. My final say is, if you want to downgrade to Vista, skip straight to Windows 7. Much more stable in my opinion, and a lot cooler to mess around with.

[jbennet]

Yeah i must admit, windows 7 is pretty nice

Windows 7 will spell the death for XP once and for all, and most likely that of vista too.

[PcPro12]

And yes, here are the downsides of turning off UAC:

If you disable UAC, you also disable UPI. UPI (user priviledge isolation) uses the new system of Integrity Levels (an extension on the existing ACL framework) which aims to stop lower privileged applications communicating with more priviledged ones. With UAC disabled, its easier for a malicious program running under limited priviledges to communicate with another which is running with more rights and enabled it to perform "shatter attacks" using message injection.

wasn't aware of that, but with my experience on computers, I'm great with it turned off...

Also, this means that Internet Explorers Protected Mode (where it runs IE under a low privilege and in a sandbox ) .is disabled, which facilitates further security flaws, particuarly those caused by malicious addins like spyware toolbars.

I don't use IE, I use firefox and other browsers

And yes, File & Registry Virtualization (responsible for doing handy things like redirecting requests for \\Documents and Settings\ to \Users im vista as well as other folders and registry keys) is only active when UAC is turned on. For that reason many older programs will not work correctly when UAC is off

Documents and Settings? that's XP, what's that got to do with vista?

UACs token system also means the system is more secure in the event that the shell is maliously modified as most of the userland runs under a low priviledge mode. Disbling UAC also disables secure desktop which again further increases the risk of attack from a malicously modified shell or logon window.

I see...

The solution is NOT to disable UAC, but to go into group polcicy and change the policy for UAC prompts for administrators (Admin Approval Mode) from the default setting of "'Prompt for consent" to dont prompt. This keeps most of the underlying functionality, but gets rid of the majority of the prompts.

didn't know you can modify it in vista...only in win7 I know of it...

my answers in bold above...

and yes, for those that don't know how to use vista well...that's not the solution by to change the way it prompts...it annoyed me because it took a while for that prompt to appear...so I work with it better off...

[jbennet]

Documents and Settings? that's XP, what's that got to do with vista?

Thats the point. If an app trys to save something to //Documents and settings/, Folder Redirection will redirect it to //Users/. Without this redirection many programs designed for xp wouldnt work well on vista.

didn't know you can modify it in vista...only in win7 I know of it...

Use the policy editor. I dont know if you get this in the Home Editons, but you will be able to edit it with regedit.

I don't use IE, I use firefox and other browsers

IE is tightly integrated into the shell. Its engine also responsible for lots of stuff like Help. A hole in IE security can affect many things apart from web browsing, regardless of whether you actively use it or not.

[PcPro12]

Thats the point. If an app trys to save something to //Documents and settings/, Folder Redirection will redirect it to //Users/. Without this redirection many programs designed for xp wouldnt work well on vista.

ahh...now I get it...that's a good point, I never had any problems with installing XP programs or drivers, so I don't know...

Use the policy editor. I dont know if you get this in the Home Editons, but you will be able to edit it with regedit.

I see :) I will try to find it...I'm using Home Premium...

IE is tightly integrated into the shell. Its engine also responsible for lots of stuff like Help. A hole in IE security can affect many things apart from web browsing, regardless of whether you actively use it or not.

ahh yes, that's true as well...reminds me...can't wait until win7 is fully released, an improved vista and faster working, no more security problems and stuff (maybe, nothing's perfect)...even this beta I'm testing looks like the full version :D

[PcPro12]

Use the policy editor. I dont know if you get this in the Home Editons, but you will be able to edit it with regedit.

nope, just checked...just like the XP Home editions of xp didn't have the GPE, neither does the vista home editions have the GPE...so that option is out...

[Suspishio]

What's bad about Vista?

The flurry of debate about UAC made me look into it further. It's very good as I'll give an example below.

But heck, Microsoft sure don't make it easy for you to find out why things don't work as you expect.

For example: GOOD - UAC protects you. If, for example, Outlook is running as an Administrator (elevated privilege), but Explorer is not, then you can't drag & drop an object from Explorer into an Outlook message. That's protection and very good.

BAD - the average punter doesn't know this, isn't told this and might well have tried putting Outlook (or whatever) under elevated privilege in order to get over some other problem.

How did I find out? Installshield update service doesn't work properly under Vista (at least not on my system) and browsing through the Acresso KB on the subject, there it was - the bit about drag and drop from an ordinary program to an elevated program.

Hmmph.

[jbennet]

is it 64 bit?

64 bit doesnt like some install shield software...

[Suspishio]

is it 64 bit?

64 bit doesnt like some install shield software...

I wish it was. I'm still on 32 bit Vista HP. I made the mistake of doing the Vista Ultimate upgrade (you get 32bit & 64bit in the box) after I'd got all my apps installed. It then wanted to do a clean install. One day when I've got time, I'll slipstream the SP1 and Toshiba drivers into the install and try again.

This was "Macrovision Software Manager has stopped working" when clicking on a Hotfix for Systran. I've lodged the error with Systran because the Problem solver didn't find a solution nor was the problem mentioned on the Acresso KB site.

But thanks for taking the interest.

[jbennet]

yeah clean install is generally the best way to go.

[amnetservices]

Vista indexes your files for searching when idle. It also defragments when idle to make your pc faster.

Ahh, well good to know it's doing something productive through all that noise! Here I was thinking it had problems.

By default it will only do some of your stuff for speed/size considerations. Adjust the indexer via control panel.

Thanks, I'll try that.

[Crash~Override]

this thread is pretty old...and by now vista has a lot of its problems ironed out.
The compatibility problem has improved significantly.
SP1, and SP2 have made the operating system a lot more stable.

So vista is a decent operating system now (just not as good as win 7).

with enough RAM (2GB or more) and decent dual core processor (2Ghz or more)...vista will run pretty smooth.

[aka_amboy]

I tried Vista Ultimate before. But I guess, I only lasted about two weeks with it. Of course, I can't tell you the "techie" stuff why I didn't last long with it: it makes you feel as if the OS owns your PC, not you.

Vista is very strict when it comes to device drivers and systems configurations or tinkerings - you'll find yourself blocked most of the time if you got used to some advanced tweaks in Windows XP.

The gist is: Vista gives too much weight on security, neglecting the fact that users do want their PCs running on their own terms!

[Sell Online]

i think vista is not all that bad

[aka_amboy]

Of course, it is a personal opinion (my sincerest apologies). The thing is, in Vista, I just can't feel that I completely own the system.

And you know what, I even prefer the Vienna Black Dream Transformation Pack, if you wish to have that "Vista looks" on an XP engine...

Have you tried it?

[Crash~Override]

Of course, it is a personal opinion (my sincerest apologies). The thing is, in Vista, I just can't feel that I completely own the system.

And you know what, I even prefer the Vienna Black Dream Transformation Pack, if you wish to have that "Vista looks" on an XP engine...

Have you tried it?

if you really want FULL control of an operating system...go for Linux

[aka_amboy]

Thanks for that info bit, Crash. Mr. Thorvald indeed gave a lasting legacy by making Linux an "open" OS architecture (and a boon to the public domain, of course).

Unfortunately, I am from the Republic of the Philippines. Linux here is still in the process of gaining a good foothold. The drawback? Scarcity of compatible software and technical support vis-a-vis the Windows platform...

[Crash~Override]

Thanks for that info bit, Crash. Mr. Thorvald indeed gave a lasting legacy by making Linux an "open" OS architecture (and a boon to the public domain, of course).

Unfortunately, I am from the Republic of the Philippines. Linux here is still in the process of gaining a good foothold. The drawback? Scarcity of compatible software and technical support vis-a-vis the Windows platform...

Well i am not too familiar with Republic of the Philippines internet thing but last I checked internet is internet...you can access everything on the internet from anywhere on Earth (unless your country is restricting access to certain websites...in that case im very sorry).

And if you country is not restricting than today, linux is a LOT compatible vis-a-vis Windows. Don't take it the wrong way that I am a linux fanatic trying to pull you to the dark side...but I am just going to lay some facts out

Linux is now compatible with microsoft office (including the 2007 version). OpenOffice 3 made sure of that.

Linux can play all media files...mp3, avi, mkv...etc.

You can browse all websites using firefox. Works 99% of the time. And in extreme cases that you do need internet explorer you can always install IE using WINE.

You have thunderbird as email client. I heard that version 3 was just released and is very promising!

If you don't know about WINE...google it. It lets you install and run windows applications on linux.

It has dvd burner softwares etc etc...so I really don't see any "compatibility" issues here.

The only big let down for linux is for a hardcore PC gamer. Windows Games are currently the most un-compatible thing on Linux.

And as for support...well there is a tremendous commnity support for any popular linux distro you choose. Currently Ubuntu is #1 in popularity in linux. And i have to say the support is phenomenal.

[OlyComputers]

Well, since all the software and support for linux is online (very few people I've ever met use phone support unless it's a corporate environment) being in the Philippines shouldn't be a problem, but it can be frustrating to be the only one on the block using it.

I think there's a fine line between amount of control available and amount of control easily available. Vista actually has more control options than XP but they're harder to access and Linux has complete customization but not a lot of it is really intuitive for a new user. When you're picking an operating system you have find the right balance between your technical needs and your comfort with the interface.

[Crash~Override]

Well, since all the software and support for linux is online (very few people I've ever met use phone support unless it's a corporate environment) being in the Philippines shouldn't be a problem, but it can be frustrating to be the only one on the block using it.

I think there's a fine line between amount of control available and amount of control easily available. Vista actually has more control options than XP but they're harder to access and Linux has complete customization but not a lot of it is really intuitive for a new user. When you're picking an operating system you have find the right balance between your technical needs and your comfort with the interface.

Unless you are working for a business or some organization which strictly uses "windows only" softwares then you might have a problem running linux. And by "windows only" right now i mean software's which don't have a "practical" alternative in linux. This does not include email clients, Microsoft Office, Web browsers...
I mean softwares like AutoCAD, Adobe after effects, illustrator, etc.

And even so, sometimes you could get lucky running an older version of these softwares using WINE on linux.

But you can always dual boot with linux which is great way of using linux and windows on the same computer.

[airbourne]

I like Vista. I've been using it for 2 years. I have a few small problems, none of which are a deal breaker.

I do wish I had waited until Windows 7, but I needed a top of the line PC at the time and all of the hardware needed to be 64-bit, so 64-bit Vista Ultimate was the OS I chose.

You have a laptop, which you may find is slower running under Vista, but if you are really serious about upgrading, get Windows 7 instead of Vista if you can. They are both essentially the same OS, with Windows 7 being newer, thus supported longer.

[freedating]

i think vista is the halfbaked version of the windows longhorn a land windows 7 is a 5 steps upgrade from vista win xp is the most commercialized OS similar to the older os like win 95 and 98.

[seemabaalm]

when we talk about features and interface, vista is great.i,m using vista and going to suffer from compatibility issues with window vista home premium.i want to install sql server 2000 on my laptop.but it is not going to be installed.if some one guid me i'll be greatful:)